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Earth

Bug #4995
Bug synopsis: Monsters become too difficult
Reported against: ADOM 1.1.1
Operating system: Windows XP
Submitted on: 2003-12-11, 00:58:11
Submitted by: Captain Kenton
Bug state: in progress
Bug description: when you are killing a lot of the same monsters, they get much harder and the experience decreases. The decrease in experience is a good idea, but the increase in difficulty doesn't make any sense, they would get easier and easier to kill if you have experience killing them. I understand this is meant to keep people from using replicating monsters to train skills and pad experience. But it is a poor solution.
Bug evaluation: No evaluation so far.
Comments (682): I guess that it will not happen in JADE, because, well i understood that there will be not level, if you want to be great in literacy, you will not archieve that killing goblins, if you want to be physically strong, you will only archieve it with heavy physical training, instead killing monsters that will make you improve in hand-to-hand combat.

Don't ask too complex improvements for ADOM, because thomas biskup will only make those heavy ones for JADE.

-- young chaos god (2004-12-13, 23:23:20)
Nothing more to say here. Good work, younger brother!

-- ElDeR cHaOs GoD (2005-01-26, 16:31:48)
Don't change this.

I think that it rightly reflects that things get tougher as the PC does. This isn't a "reality" thing. It's about game mechanics.

I am sure that Mr. Biskup has intentionally included this feature.

Deal with it.

-- pernicious sovereign (2005-02-08, 01:35:40)
The increase in difficulty is very noticable with jackels. The "gang" quickly becomes too tough to beat for anyone playing the game normally.

-- David Webber (2005-02-27, 23:26:59)
I agree that this make no sense. I've just returned to ADOM after a long break and I'm sick of having long battles with jackels or having my high level character killed by a rat. For me, the game is hard enough without this.

-- Jan Hyde (2005-03-23, 13:45:17)
This feature is game mechanincs. In fact (due to my well over 5 years plyaing adom), monsters should me much harder to kill in this sence. Adom is getting easy.....

-- Tyler The King (2005-04-15, 23:51:42)
I think this is a cool feature

It is too easy to kill 50 rats in the infinite dungeon and maybe get 5 rings 5 scrolls and a few potions as rewards!

The magical forest becomes very interesting with this feature.

Once my very high level character entered and started chucking improved fireballs (with the maximum radius and high skill level) around.

After about 700 kills an animated tree attacked me, got in three critical hits taking 400hp damage in a single round!

No doubt he has put in the forest to showcase this feature.

-- KhelavasterT (2005-04-16, 02:05:28)
Anothre agreement - I understand that in certain areas (SMC) the levels *are* supposed to increase wildly, but random super-level rats and orcs are farily pointless when they stop a champion from completing the game, if they pop up just before the final descent....

-- Kelibath (2005-04-17, 09:22:29)

-- Note from Thomas Biskup: One or more comments for this report have been banned because they contain HTML code and this website recently has been spammed by idiots trying to swamp the website with advertisements.


I agree that the uber-jackal phenominon is a bug. In the small cave, lower levels of the infinite dungeon, and maybe lower levels of the infinite dungeon, I can see reason for super level monsters. But I don't see how a rat can become a super-rat just because you've killed 500 rats before.

-- NMBLNG (2005-05-23, 16:14:22)
We know this is a feature, not a bug.. but it is still the single most frustrating part of ADOM. Instituting another means to decrease weapon/skill advancments is needed. This handicap was the easiest and cheapest way to solve the problem, but it has only generated new ones - primarily in making Mele class characters nearly pointless to play as. What level 50 palidin deserves to be slaughtered by a measly jackal, just because he's killed over 2000 of them? >.< Magic and Missle weapons do not seem to suffer the same effect as mele in this. The same is also said with using "coward" and using magic or missle weapons - they still increace, though mele does not. PLEASE, TB, make another means of reducing training; perhaps in direct relation to the decrese in exp. gained, this same check can be used for skill advancments? Perhaps Based on the exp drop, it will corrilate to the drop in training.

-- Adam Ruggieri (2005-05-23, 22:31:17)
er... not about the bug, but wots with the bots?

-- Cruncha Of Kings (2005-06-21, 22:04:15)
i agree. making monsters to difficult by killing lots of them.
more less on the level that you can pass from dwarven caves to Kherab artificer i've killed herds of white dragons (especially ancient ones and their leader "Great white wyrm" or sth like that) about 15 jackals killed me.
it makes no sense JACKALS better then ANCIENT DRAGONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Kusin (2005-06-29, 15:03:20)
I agree too.
In other RPG's, monsters that are weak STAY weak.
ex.: You kill 5000 rats, then you kill them in one hit and only gain less and less exp when you level up.

But if you kill 5000 rats and a lvl 1000 rat appears to totally obliterate you... That's just stupid.

-- [Alpha]-0mega- (2005-08-30, 10:10:32)
Hey, I changed my mind!
Well, almost. I don't like the high-level monsters resulting from many kills of that type of monster, especially as IRL it becomes easier to kill one with experience.
However after reading the 'Genocide' thread I'd say it is *possible* that, from the race of rats oppressed for hundreds or turns by RatKiller, the Dwarven Barbarian, one or two Super-Rats would arise and train themselves to elimintae this menace. Perhaps, instead of a net difficulty increase, there should be the increased possibility of a rat being generated with 200 hits, or something.
Then again, maybe they all congregated in the SMC and there should be no difficulty increase otherwise.
Another piece or useless mumbling from

-- Kelibath (2005-09-04, 13:10:16)
The only Problem is the abusive character increase of Power, Most of Games are too lineal with that experience thing, The Character grows, Grows and GROWS, and at the very end is about 60 times stronger than what he was at the beggining, and he supposed to train Years before make his travel.

-- Chaos God (2005-09-21, 02:19:17)
(My english - bad sory. Because I am from Russia and i am teenager.I agree with both. But if yiu are realy trying thing about it you should understand that is the world of Ancarida and there is the one rule - Ifyou standing higher and higher in level your enemies need to be more powerful thats why they becomes more strong and defensive, and others came to. For exemple when you arrive 13lv Air elemental Dorn beasts or sth like that are come to you... they become more powerful becouse you could training on them.. I hope you understand me. :)))))

-- NIkza [Black werewolf lord] (2005-11-21, 12:25:17)
(REPETITION FROM POSTERIOR REPORT)

Hmm, This Gives Me An Idea; If SOMEONE Sees This Comment Please Tell Your Opinion,

To Make This Casino Bullshit Dissappear, We Can Create An ADOM COMMENTERS COMMUNITY (ACC), Which Anyone Can Join (Still Making Possible The Original Comment Mode Same As Always) But This (Reponsible) Members Has The Power Of Modifying Comments Or Erasing Them;

Having Our "Headquarters" That For Banning Those Who Join For Creating Havoc In This Place.

I Think That, If We Use This Comment System, Is Our Responsability To Keep It Clean, So I'll E-Mail Thomas Biskup With This Idea, Hoping That He Will See This With An Open Mind.

-- An Advice To Keep This Place Clean. (2006-01-30, 20:45:46)
h7vf1kkpInES E5d8tnmyaknb svkI2emYwvW

-- 81TeqP2tn9 (2006-03-07, 18:40:53)
A % chance increase to spawn Super-Critters, or a "Critter Avenger" -- where "critter" is the creature type killed XXX times would be nice.

Unless the number of total critters of any type is finite, the above would be a better way of increasing difficulty than making every single creature of that type more powerful.

If anything, killing thousands of individuals of a specific creature type *should* make killing those creatures easier for the player character...

Or make the number of creatures of every type finite -- not infinite -- so that level 50 characters cannot be killed by the first creature he killed, after killing a great White dragon without loosing a single HP...

-- Frostraven (2006-04-21, 19:11:14)
Evolution, people! Evolution!
When you killed 200 ancient dragons, escaped ones, who managed to be alive yet, must be much more difficult and deadly. If you are walking around Ancardia killing thouthands of jackals, only the best jackals will survive. Darvin rulez-z-z!

-- Mi Hai Loo (2006-05-15, 05:49:14)
Nooooooooooo... Rats, realising that a rat pillager is loose, start training to resist. First on jackals, then wild cats, then a leader kills the cat lord, then they kill more tigers and bears, finally they start raiding caravans, then practice armor destroying in the Darkforge, and then the army of Uber-lvl1337 rats sets out to train on a simple level50 jumpy kind of hero who decided to kill a gang of rats a while ago.

-- Battle bunny (2006-06-16, 16:46:25)
Critter Avenger? Something like this:
This is Squeaking Death, the rat. It looks nearly omnipotent. It is hostile. [more]
You hear a thundering voice:
"NOW YE WILL PAY FOR YOUR GENOCIDE!!!"
:))

Seriously, though:
Apart for lowering experience value you can slightly lower treasure generation for certain critter type with each kill...

-- 1ceph (2006-07-30, 22:13:55)
It gets really interesting with battle bunnies (not sure if thats the real name).
Long ago I kept killing those to raise some skills. My lvl was 50 on some strong melee char, playing with dual phase daggers, until extremely experienced rabbits started spawning and takin 150-200 hp per hit (sic!). I'm glad I had a scroll of teleportation, otherwise I would have died right there, killed by a BUNNY. A lvl 110 extremely experienced battle bunny - 150hp/hit against my dv around 100. Guess that grants some nice feature for the game, like somebody said earlier, bunnies learn from generation to generation and get better every time ;) Bad bunnies...

-- Noob cheater (2007-11-01, 16:12:15)
ihmrus cdrg gwayhft rwdmity motwvhx rwdiyat acds

-- vqkef@mail.com (2008-05-02, 16:03:11)
The www.adom.de is interesting site, thanks, owner.
Good luck.

-- ringtonesDiargerIxgefe (2008-07-29, 14:38:49)
The www.adom.de is good site, tnks, webmaster.

-- ringtonesDiargerIxgefe (2008-07-30, 10:12:24)
The www.adom.de is excellent resource.
Thanks, owner.

-- mcaffevirusprotectionbox (2008-08-02, 19:36:14)
If that\'s the case i\'ve never lived long enough to notice, and the gremlin cave must be HELL aftera while.

-- American ADOM fan (2009-06-02, 20:36:02)
Any chance of making available a version
of the current Adom without this annoying feature and see which one gets downloaded more ?

Anyway thanks for hundreds of hours

of quality time.

-- Rambamalam (2009-07-29, 10:58:03)
Submitted this complaint in 2003, It is still annoying. People basically only play with Wizards, Archers, or Necromancers, because playing with a melee fighter you can\'t kill the spawning or summoned monsters fast enough. How come the banshee can kill an infinite number of trees, and they never get any better, or your skeletal warriors or pets can do the same... Ya my poison resistant Level 50 Barbarian was just killed by spiders.

-- Captain Kenton (2010-03-19, 08:35:59)
Monkey see, monkey do. (Children see , children do).

-- Hot movie sccene (2011-02-12, 23:09:53)
A bit surprised it seems to simple and yet ufseul.

-- 1991 (2012-01-03, 21:05:59)
response.write(9421065*9579202)

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:19:13)
\'+response.write(9421065*9579202)+\'

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:19:15)
\"+response.write(9421065*9579202)+\"

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:19:17)
1

-- response.write(9695483*9462257) (2015-11-22, 18:19:33)
1

-- \'+response.write(9695483*9462257)+\' (2015-11-22, 18:19:35)
1

-- \"+response.write(9695483*9462257)+\" (2015-11-22, 18:19:36)
-1 OR 2+207-207-1=0+0+0+1 --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:20)
-1 OR 3+207-207-1=0+0+0+1 --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:22)
-1 OR 2+472-472-1=0+0+0+1

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:24)
-1 OR 3+472-472-1=0+0+0+1

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:26)
-1\' OR 2+60-60-1=0+0+0+1 --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:28)
-1\' OR 3+60-60-1=0+0+0+1 --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:30)
-1\" OR 2+526-526-1=0+0+0+1 --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:32)
-1\" OR 3+526-526-1=0+0+0+1 --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:34)
if(now()=sysdate(),sleep(4),0)/*\'XOR(if(now()=sysdate(),sleep(4),0))OR\'\"XOR(if(now()=sysdate(),sleep(4),0))OR\"*/

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:36)
(select(0)from(select(sleep(4)))v)/*\'+(select(0)from(select(sleep(4)))v)+\'\"+(select(0)from(select(sleep(4)))v)+\"*/

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:38)
-1; waitfor delay \'0:0:8\' --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:40)
-1); waitfor delay \'0:0:8\' --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:42)
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-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:47)
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-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:49)
AaiC8dRw\')); waitfor delay \'0:0:12\' --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:52)
-1;select pg_sleep(12); --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:54)
-1);select pg_sleep(12); --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:57)
-1));select pg_sleep(12); --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:21:59)
EyWYsOeB\';select pg_sleep(12); --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:22:01)
AH20Czk6\');select pg_sleep(12); --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:22:03)
nsK0Rapc\'));select pg_sleep(4); --

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:22:05)
1

-- -1 OR 2+943-943-1=0+0+0+1 -- (2015-11-22, 18:23:50)
1

-- -1 OR 3+943-943-1=0+0+0+1 -- (2015-11-22, 18:23:52)
1

-- -1 OR 2+509-509-1=0+0+0+1 (2015-11-22, 18:23:54)
1

-- -1 OR 3+509-509-1=0+0+0+1 (2015-11-22, 18:23:57)
1

-- -1\' OR 2+215-215-1=0+0+0+1 -- (2015-11-22, 18:23:59)
1

-- -1\' OR 3+215-215-1=0+0+0+1 -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:01)
1

-- -1\" OR 2+613-613-1=0+0+0+1 -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:03)
1

-- -1\" OR 3+613-613-1=0+0+0+1 -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:05)
1

-- if(now()=sysdate(),sleep(4),0)/*\'XOR(if (2015-11-22, 18:24:07)
1

-- (select(0)from(select(sleep(8)))v)/*\'+( (2015-11-22, 18:24:10)
1

-- -1; waitfor delay \'0:0:12\' -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:12)
1

-- -1); waitfor delay \'0:0:12\' -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:13)
1

-- -1)); waitfor delay \'0:0:12\' -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:16)
1

-- 1 waitfor delay \'0:0:12\' -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:18)
1

-- 3LsCQcwL\'; waitfor delay \'0:0:12\' -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:20)
1

-- 3HZv2GbN\'); waitfor delay \'0:0:12\' -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:21)
1

-- maeLNMkc\')); waitfor delay \'0:0:4\' -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:23)
1

-- -1;select pg_sleep(4); -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:24)
1

-- -1);select pg_sleep(4); -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:26)
1

-- -1));select pg_sleep(4); -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:28)
1

-- qGHRdJ4C\';select pg_sleep(4); -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:31)
1

-- ZfhBBuNa\');select pg_sleep(4); -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:33)
1

-- pckXAgC0\'));select pg_sleep(8); -- (2015-11-22, 18:24:35)
1

-- ..%2F..%2F..%2F..%2F..%2F..%2F..%2F..%2F (2015-11-22, 18:24:57)
1

-- ../../../../../../../../../../etc/passwd (2015-11-22, 18:24:59)
1

-- Li4vLi4vLi4vLi4vLi4vLi4vLi4vLi4vLi4vLi4v (2015-11-22, 18:25:01)
1

-- ..%2F..%2F..%2F..%2F..%2F..%2F..%2F..%2F (2015-11-22, 18:25:03)
1

-- /../..//../..//../..//../..//../..//etc/ (2015-11-22, 18:25:05)
1

-- .\\\\./.\\\\./.\\\\./.\\\\./.\\\\./.\\\\ (2015-11-22, 18:25:07)
1

-- ../..//../..//../..//../..//../..//../.. (2015-11-22, 18:25:11)
1

-- ../.../.././../.../.././../.../.././../. (2015-11-22, 18:25:12)
1

-- ..À¯..À¯..À¯..À¯..À¯..À¯..À¯..À¯etc/pass (2015-11-22, 18:25:14)
1

-- invalid../../../../../../../../../../etc (2015-11-22, 18:25:16)
1

-- /\\../\\../\\../\\../\\../\\../\\../etc/ (2015-11-22, 18:25:20)
${9999883+10000102}

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:26:00)
1

-- ${10000147+10000466} (2015-11-22, 18:26:06)
1

-- http://some-inexistent-website.acu/some_ (2015-11-22, 18:27:12)
1

-- 1some_inexistent_file_with_long_name\0.j (2015-11-22, 18:27:14)
1

-- http://testasp.vulnweb.com/t/fit.txt?.jp (2015-11-22, 18:27:18)
1

-- http://testasp.vulnweb.com/t/xss.html?%0 (2015-11-22, 18:27:57)
1

-- \';print(md5(acunetix_wvs_security_test) (2015-11-22, 18:28:28)
1

-- \";print(md5(acunetix_wvs_security_test) (2015-11-22, 18:28:30)
1

-- ${@print(md5(acunetix_wvs_security_test) (2015-11-22, 18:28:32)
1

-- ${@print(md5(acunetix_wvs_security_test) (2015-11-22, 18:28:34)
1

-- http://hitbHuS4cO5pf.bxss.me/ (2015-11-22, 18:28:56)
1

-- )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) (2015-11-22, 18:29:11)
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-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:29:32)
1\'\"()&%<acx><ScRiPt >prompt(921703)</ScRiPt>

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:30:18)
1

-- @@NIzPS (2015-11-22, 18:30:18)
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-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:30:19)
1_902567

-- 1 (2015-11-22, 18:30:21)
1

-- 1\'\"()&%<acx><ScRiPt >prompt(990098)</S (2015-11-22, 18:30:33)
1

-- \'\"()&%<acx><ScRiPt >prompt(941752)</Sc (2015-11-22, 18:30:37)
1

-- 1_991719 (2015-11-22, 18:30:39)
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Fable Thomas Biskup recommends: Fable
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