Request for sample

I see a lot of discussion about the million of variants that will arise if the source code is ever released. But if I recall correctly, Thomas has said that the code is not well written and organized.
If this is the case not many variants will be done, maybe not even the silliest ones (AKA you find all artifacts laying at your feets in Terinyo)

To help basing the discussion on better facts, could Thomas release a sample of the code, maybe a single file or even a single function (as long as it is meaningfull) ? Something that is pretty average in the way that things are coded in ADOM but is not to spoilerish (does this word even exists)

I think it will help us see if any variants will in fact be possible to make.

Seeing all the reactions to the code sample may also help Thomas reach a decision.

If ADOM source is a spaghetti code, it should be gradually refactored after code release. At some point it will be neatly organized and every halfwit will be able to write their own lightsaber/UFO/whatever mod. So I don't think it's a valid argument.

That or people will focus on adding features and fixing bugs, like they should. Though getting code more organized might become a prerequisite for bugfixing...

It's best not to give in to illusions that there won't be silly variants, though, that much is true. There will be silly variants. It was always and is still a matter of tolerating them for the sake of the greater good.

I've seen some code professionally that was so messed up that a total rewrite was much cheaper than implementing even a moderatly complicated function. The cost of understanding the code was too great.

This means that a rewrite of Adom may have to start from an empty page. Would a team of developper be sufficiently motivated to do it ?
Would the result still be Adom ?

This is why I'd like to see a sample. If a rewrite is necessary, does it have to be from the ground up ? Is the code commented ?
I'd like us to be able to base our thinking on more than supositions.

I don't really get it what the problem with someone writing a variant for ADOM is.

Even if the code was organized and every line commented, how many people would have the knowhow to make effective changes to it? The people who are able to do that with reasonable amounts of time and labor have already been writing other roguelikes for years, and many are likely unwilling to drop everything they've already grasped from their own code jumbles. I don't mean adding simple items or editing existing ones (who would play an edit like that a second time, anyway?) - It's when you add something significant to the game play and have to debug the monster AI for 42^x nights through that the actual variants start to form. Those who already know how to code would much more likely use the ADOM source as a reference of sorts for starting their own roguelike projects.

If someone thinks they can start studying a language and take on a project the size of ADOM, their enthusiasm will die pretty quickly after they realize what they've gotten into.

Who cares about silly variants anyway? As long as they are called EDAM or somthing to distinguish them from the ADOM n.n.n and there is an "official" site where the real thing can be downloaded, I don't give a s**t about silly variants. And yet some variants might be funny if done properly.

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Originally Posted by Sintaluva

Who cares about silly variants anyway? As long as they are called EDAM or somthing to distinguish them from the ADOM n.n.n and there is an "official" site where the real thing can be downloaded, I don't give a s**t about silly variants. And yet some variants might be funny if done properly.

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This is what I said about trademarks, effectively. I agree with Sintaluva;11757

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Originally Posted by Sintaluva

Who cares about silly variants anyway?

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For the purposes of this discussion, the only person who matters: TB.

This is good, there seems to be an erosion of the reasoning that would dissuade TB from choosing not to release it.

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Originally Posted by Sintaluva

Who cares about silly variants anyway? As long as they are called EDAM or somthing to distinguish them from the ADOM n.n.n and there is an "official" site where the real thing can be downloaded, I don't give a s**t about silly variants. And yet some variants might be funny if done properly.

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Silfir never held these words back, or hid them under asterisks. Either use them fully, or not. Because you're not doing any lesser evil by "hiding" a word in a manner like this.

All others, if you dont know which word I mean, just carry on.

Yeah, S**f*r always calls salt salt, and I respect him for that.

Pepper.

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Originally Posted by Elone

Silfir never held these words back, or hid them under asterisks. Either use them fully, or not. Because you're not doing any lesser evil by "hiding" a word in a manner like this.

All others, if you dont know which word I mean, just carry on.

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If someone doesn't want to swear or use a certain word, for whatever reason, it doesn't do you any harm to let them use asterisks.

If they really "didnt want to swear", then they wont do it in such a "hidden" way either. The fact that their word is partly hidden in asterisks, doesnt change (or lessen) this other fact that the point got across and that the actual curseword formed in our minds. If you really want to protect yourself and others from cursewords, then dont use them at all. Surely there are other proper alternatives to words like ****, **** and ******* (pun intended).

Such a usage of asterisks is an excuse to use all kinds of cursewords that everyone will understand, and then wash your hands of it, as if you didnt ever say anything bad.

But ultimately, this is not aimed at Sintaluva, and it is not personal. It's become a trend to warp the definition of morals into morals that fit your current needs, and this is especially popular on internet. Again, I dont blame any given individual. I blame the immature community for... being unable to show them the more moral ways instead. Well at least people dont go 'no, u' on these forums, and I highly appreciate that.

What Elone said.

s**t is the same as shit, only with an extra serving of hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by Elone

If they really "didnt want to swear", then they wont do it in such a "hidden" way either.

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Furthermore, swearing adds emphasis and not meaning. If you don't swear, there are other ways to add emphasis. For exampe:
Plain form- "My boss is stupid."
Using bold- "My boss is stupid."
Using an adjective- "My boss is very stupid."
Using profanity- "My boss is <insert adjective form of profanity of choice here> stupid."

If you don't swear, why not pick a clean word with the meaning you intend to use. Using $%& signs or **** signs strikes me as swearing because everyone else swears, but not swearing because other people don't find it acceptable. Do you find it acceptable or not? Again, not directed at anyone in particular.

What Silfir said.

He managed to say what I wanted to say, but in far less words.

Maybe this is the word you are looking for:

STOP

Please, get back on topic. Thanks :)

Oh, an anagram! He means:
POST
But since the original topic is more or less discussed/answered already, we'll just continue the topic as is. Then again, this other topic was kind of answered too. But do post! Epythic said so >.>

That wasnt an anagram, was it? -_-

You cant say shit on the internet! Didnt you guys learn anything today? If you go on saying shit on the internet kenny will die!

... sry had to.

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Originally Posted by Elone

That wasnt an anagram, was it? -_-

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That a man saw a warning start? _,--

Derailing the discussion and making a mockery out of it isn't pretty, but it sure is an efficient way to make people want to go away from the forum area.

To refer to the original post again, it certainly is a compelling idea if you think about it. You've described the possible advantages well. It's up to Thomas to take a look at this forum and toy around with it in his head, and maybe we'll see a sample. I wouldn't understand a line of it though.

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Originally Posted by sbumps

Derailing the discussion and making a mockery out of it isn't pretty, but it sure is an efficient way to make people want to go away from the forum area.

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you are a cat fast one in making a thin play poetry guilty for deaf emotion,
but it is taken from a same true king's words
I wonder if I must accept the woe.

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Originally Posted by Evil Knievel

you are a cat fast one in making a thin play poetry guilty for deaf emotion,
but it is taken from a same true king's words
I wonder if I must accept the woe.

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what the hell does it mean?

I guess it's just an anagram of the post Evil Knievel was quoting.

Anagrams were one of a small number of IQ games that my mind simply refuses to process... Oh well, I'm good at other things. Err wait, I did make a simple anagram somewhere earlier...

Probably, I should abstain from performing anagram arts in english. Transferring poetry that is shallow from my own mother tongue to a foreign seems far worse than the low pass filtering i#d expected..

Cross-language anagrams might be the future, but have so limited audience. Additionally, most languages have differently dense use of the alphabet ... if the alphabets are the same at all. Anagrams, if not well thought, map to strange things.

Btw, when talking about anagrams we must not forget to mention lawenilothehl/holeinthewall :)

Now that you mention it... Personally, I would rather prefer it to be an anagram of "Hole in the law". It seems more fitting.

Holeinthelawl?

lawl!

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