Quest to kill Jharod the Healer
issueid=1388 12-07-2012 04:59 AM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by Dogbreath: 74
Quest to kill Jharod the Healer
Make the quest from Hotzenplotz to kill Jharod available without talking to village elder.

Playing a Chaos Knight, I noticed it's impossible to generate either the VD or the DD due to neither the village elder nor the druid wanting to talk to you. Which is fine (it makes sense), but you can't generate the quest to kill Jharod without talking to Rynt. My suggested improvement would be to make the quest available from Hotzenplotz *without* getting the quest from Rynt, but keep it mutually exclusive from the Druid's quest. I.e, if you get the quest from Hotzenplotz, then the druid will *never* give you the black druid quest (even if you convert to another alignment), and if you get the druid quest first, Hotzenplotz will never give you the quest to kill the healer.

You could make it so, say, Jharod is always generated hostile towards chaotically aligned Chaos Knights, so there's no means of rescuing the Carpenter.

This is a balance issue, but also because I dislike having to change my alignment to N to do an obviously chaotic quest.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1388
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 7
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 10
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 21
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 28
Votes against this feature 4
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




01-16-2013 10:33 PM
Senior Member
After seeing all the other bugs/RFEs implemented (including a few of my own), I was wondering if there was any thought put towards approving/denying this? It wouldn't take long to implement.

01-17-2013 02:03 AM
Ancient Member
I would love to see this.

02-17-2013 06:25 PM
Senior Member
After some thinking I've come around to this being a good idea. It has my vote. Here are some caveats, however:

- I would not make Jharod be generated hostile. It goes against his nature. Matter of fact, I would still have him talk to you (with different messages, and different from the one he would have if hostile) - just not heal you if you are chaotic. If you lead Yrrigs to him and he heals him, Jharod could then drop a hint to you about perhaps changing your ways. If a special quest is implemented later on down the road for chaos knights to be redeemed, he could also mention something to that effect.
(The message display after Yrrigs is healed could also be slightly different. Something like "He looks at you, seemingly very confused, then nervously puts down some items for you before hurriedly leaving".)
- If you get the quest from Hotz and convert to another alignment before completing it, Rynt should give his quest as usual.
- I would also make this (possibly getting the quest from Hotz first and it being exclusive with the druid quest) available to every PC, regardless of alignment, not just chaos knights.

12-04-2013 07:54 AM
Senior Member
Still no response. :(

Maybe next year? I still have hopes for this poor little neglected RFE...

12-04-2013 01:31 PM
Ancient Member
Well, it is a chaos knight we are talking about. I don't see Jharod wanting to talk to a chaotic chaos knight. His response should be similar to other lawful NPCs.

Wrt the RFE's suggestion. I rather like the restriction that not being able for a CK to easily get Healing adds to a otherwise pretty powerful class. The biggest challenge for CKs is to either not lose HP or find clever/lucky ways of recovering lost HP. They must at least have some challenge in the early game.

Why the heck would a character sworn to chaos change alignment?

It is becoming more and more apparent that many ADOM players want things just handed to them without much effort from their side. 20 votes for and my 1 vote against. In all honesty leave these challenging classes to people that like a challenge in ADOM, there is more than enough easy race/class combinations. :(

12-05-2013 04:36 AM
Senior Member
Stingray1: you misread the rfe. :) I'm *not* talking about the CK changing alignment - just the opposite, in fact. I'm talking about the quest to kill the healer - and how weird it is that you have to change alignment to get that quest as a CK. (when it's clearly a chaotic quest)

12-05-2013 06:02 AM
Ancient Member
Then I did not misread it. I mentioned the alignment part, because I do not believe a CK should be able to. That is the most ridiculous thing ever. They were fine the way the Creator created them originally, but all the cry-babies want to make them not so hard to play for them. Oh, no we can't get healing. Cry. Oh, poison hands, cry. Oh, I have always done the dwarven quests, cry.

This is not about it being a chaotic quest, honestly, seek deep and tell me that. If you want the power that chaos promises, you must sacrifice some.

12-05-2013 07:23 AM
Senior Member
Again, why shouldn't a ChAoS Knight be able to slaughter the healer? Why should he have to change his alignment to do it? You keep misunderstanding - I *agree* it's dumb for a ChAoS Knight to change his alignment! It's a chaotic quest - why in the world should you have to be neutral to take it? Not just ChAoS knights fwiw, I don't think taking Rynt's quest should be necessary for anyone looking to just kill the healer. I'm not sure what the rest of your post is about, other than it's pretty insulting and not actually related to anything I've said or proposed.

12-05-2013 07:37 AM
Ancient Member
Why do you want to kill Jharod?

12-05-2013 02:06 PM
Ancient Member
Because it gets you the healing skill via the chaotic path. (Talk to Rynt, talk to Hotzenplotz, kill Jharod)

12-05-2013 02:32 PM
Ancient Member
Exactly!

12-05-2013 05:34 PM
Senior Member
Yes. So again, why are you against that? I mean, you can take this quest as a ChAoS knight right now, but you have to convert to neutral in order to talk to Rynt so that Hotzenplotz will give you the quest. You and I both agree it's pretty dumb for a ChAoS Knight to convert to another alignment, especially since this quest exists specifically for chaotic, evil characters who don't want to change alignment. Also, if you convert to neutral, talk to Rynt, then go back to being Chaotic Hotzenplotz *will* give you this quest, which shows the creator fully intended it to be available to ChAoS Knights. He just overlooked the Rynt factor. I really, really don't understand your objection to this. This is one of the most cut and dry obviously chatoic quests in the game, why shouldn't you be able to take it unless you convert? Why???

12-05-2013 05:44 PM
Ancient Member
The Creator has already been asked about it here and he turned it down.

I've mentioned before why I don't want them to get healing, please read my previous posts. I'm lazy when it comes to typing.

Edit - I'll give you that, it is a possibility that he overlooked it. Yet, I still think they should explode when converting and should be denied access to the Healing quest. From a balance standpoint that is.

Edit 2 - At level 6 they already get a means to quickly heal anyway.

12-05-2013 08:07 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
The Creator has already been asked about it here and he turned it down.

I've mentioned before why I don't want them to get healing, please read my previous posts. I'm lazy when it comes to typing.

Edit - I'll give you that, it is a possibility that he overlooked it. Yet, I still think they should explode when converting and should be denied access to the Healing quest. From a balance standpoint that is.

Edit 2 - At level 6 they already get a means to quickly heal anyway.
TB's response is completely unrelated to Healing quest (just what is turned down in his response is beyond my understanding).

Healing skill is one of the major things in the game that stops it from being a slugfest where you constantly have to w5 to regain health instead of actually playing the damn game. Denying it to CKs will just serve people to scum for lucky start, regen corruption or Candle. You can always forgo the quest if you think that true CKs are played like that.

12-05-2013 08:17 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by _Ln_
TB's response is completely unrelated to Healing quest (just what is turned down in his response is beyond my understanding).

Healing skill is one of the major things in the game that stops it from being a slugfest where you constantly have to w5 to regain health instead of actually playing the damn game. Denying it to CKs will just serve people to scum for lucky start, regen corruption or Candle. You can always forgo the quest if you think that true CKs are played like that.
He was proposed 3 solutions to make it less easy for converted Chaos Knights compared to true Chaos Knights, he chose one. But from my first edit it should be apparent that I also think it possible that he maybe missed it. I've played quite a few Chaos Knights up to know and never had to w5 or scum for starsigns or corruptions.

This is not only about how I want to play the game, but mostly how I think it should be for all. 'Nuf said on this matter.

BTW, what is the problem? There is 20 votes for and 1 against.

12-05-2013 08:28 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
The Creator has already been asked about it here and he turned it down.
As _Ln already said, that post is completely unrelated to what we're talking about here. Hotzenploz does give his quest to chaotic CK's which means TB very much intended it to be a CK accessible quest. He just forgot that you need to talk to Rynt first to activate it.

I've mentioned before why I don't want them to get healing, please read my previous posts. I'm lazy when it comes to typing.

Edit - I'll give you that, it is a possibility that he overlooked it. Yet, I still think they should explode when converting and should be denied access to the Healing quest. From a balance standpoint that is.

Edit 2 - At level 6 they already get a means to quickly heal anyway.
Balance is a pretty shoddy reason to try and keep unintentional, buggy, or flawed gameplay mechanics in place. Especially since you can get healing with a CK anyway as soon as you encounter a N or L altar, so it's not really impacting balance at all. What it is doing is preventing players from following the chaotic path to healing. But if you think it's an issue, then suggest something like "the Mad doctor rewards the CK with corruption instead" or whatever. Insulting me and all that weird crap about the dwarf quests and crybabies and whatnot isn't really acceptable.

12-05-2013 08:41 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
This is not only about how I want to play the game, but mostly how I think it should be for all. 'Nuf said on this matter.

BTW, what is the problem? There is 20 votes for and 1 against.
The problem is after Dogbreath upped the thread you went and expressed your opinion on game balance. Why on Earth did you do that if
a) you stated yourself that there is no point in doing that since there are too many votes for the RFE.
b) you will never accept any other position than yours (by saying Nuff said).

So, you express an opinion just for the sake of expressing and shut down any other opinions by stating "you just want to play game easily while I'm the only sensible player who can take on the challenge". Good job.

12-05-2013 08:53 PM
Ancient Member
a)I did it, because in my experience it is best the way it is now and hope that my point of view is taken into consideration and by the flood of responses there obviously is some substance to what I was saying.

b)I hate repeating myself is what I meant, that is why there is a 'on this matter' there. Of course I won't accept another position, anyway. I think that was quite apparent from the start.

Edit - BTW, I did not make a statement, I asked a question. Quite a big difference.

Edit 2 - Do you seriously expect me to not voice my opinion on balance issues in a game that I love and want others to experience it the same way that I do.

12-05-2013 09:08 PM
Ancient Member
I give up, I cannot cope with this logic.

12-05-2013 10:40 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Dogbreath
Insulting me and all that weird crap about the dwarf quests and crybabies and whatnot isn't really acceptable.
My apologies Dogbreath, I did not intend to insult you alone, if that is what you were thinking. You must try to understand my point of view, I am really getting fed-up with attempts to make ADOM a joyride. Struggling to get a win in, is much more how I remember ADOM to be, than every game being a win.

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