Rarity limit for Thrundarr's first quest
issueid=1467 12-17-2012 12:12 PM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by Laukku: 55
Rarity limit for Thrundarr's first quest
Prevent Thrundarr from assigning too rare monsters for the player to kill

Thrundarr's first quest is one of the most annoying ones in the game: you have to slay a random monster, and it can be either a very common or rare one. If it's rare, the player has to spend ages looking for it, before his remaining quests can be completed. Now that's just plain tedious and not fun. The quest shouldn't be that difficult considering the immediate reward isn't that great (literacy or complete inventory identification, both of which can be found elsewhere). Furthermore, the fact that the difficulty of the quest relies so much on luck doesn't make much sense from a game balance point of view.

My suggestion is to make it so that there's a limit on how rare a monster Thrundarr can order you to kill, so you never get TOO rare monsters.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1467
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category MS-DOS
Status Implemented
Priority 6
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 8
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 9
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 6
Votes against this feature 4
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-17-2012 12:20 PM
Ancient Member
Roguelikes always have a significant randomness element, it's part of the fun. What's "too rare"? Maybe we could tone down the danger level range just a tad so players don't have to scum the Tomb of the High Kings, but I think it's fine it they're somewhat hard to find. What's an example you remember off the top of your head that was definitely too rare?

12-17-2012 12:50 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
What's an example you remember off the top of your head that was definitely too rare?
Vapor rat and cyclops.

12-17-2012 01:00 PM
Ancient Member
I remember having both. Tomb of the High Kings coughed them up after I don't think too long a time. But then, it could be argued that the Tomb of the High Kings is a bit too hardcore a place for a character on the first Thrundarr quest.

An adjustment to the range of monsters and maybe an increase in the monster's generation rate while the quest is active - just a little one - would be sufficient, I think. Not that I feel this is an absolutely necessary change. I don't mind getting a harsh Thrundarr monster; hating the RNG is one of my favorite things to do when playing ADOM.

12-17-2012 01:01 PM
Senior Member
There's an alternate solution to the problem.

Make it so that, while the quest is active, the probability of finding the necessary monster is adjusted to have a minimum. So if you get a Vapor Rat, and the minimum is 0.1% chance per monster generated, and Vapor Rats are only one in ten thousand, then you will have a one in a thousand chance that any particular monster encountered will be a Vapor Rat. But if, say, a Dire Wolf has a chance of one in 300, then it remains at one in 300.

Since it's still a random thing in terms of monster generation, etc, the concern about it lacking randomness is removed.

12-17-2012 01:39 PM
Ancient Member
I have noticed that the PC's experience level contributes to the monster he(RNG) chosses. The higher, the higher.
So if you want a rat or a goblin go ask him at level 6.

12-17-2012 02:43 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
I have noticed that the PC's experience level contributes to the monster he(RNG) chosses. The higher, the higher.
So if you want a rat or a goblin go ask him at level 6.
This is correct. If you talk to him at level 50, he may ask for a greater moloch.

12-17-2012 03:49 PM
Ancient Member
There's also a rumor that the game takes the highest-DL area you've visited so far in consideration when assigning the monster. In games where I raided DFG prior to taking his quests, he has asked for things like cyclopes, troll berserkers and doppelganger lords. So it might be true.

12-17-2012 04:01 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by anon123
There's also a rumor that the game takes the highest-DL area you've visited so far in consideration when assigning the monster. In games where I raided DFG prior to taking his quests, he has asked for things like cyclopes, troll berserkers and doppelganger lords. So it might be true.
That could be a bit unfair. As a fairly new player can stumble into DF running around the guard and then see more steel golem as he descends and get the .... out of there and then is asked to slay a higher DL monster.

12-17-2012 05:33 PM
Ancient Member
I agree with the original post as it's quite frustrating getting something you know you'll likely never find.

But on the flip side I think there should be a minimum danger level (say 4 or 5 - not too high) to prevent the rather odd situation of "I want ye to slay a rat to prove yer valour!"

12-17-2012 06:18 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by anon123
There's also a rumor that the game takes the highest-DL area you've visited so far in consideration when assigning the monster. In games where I raided DFG prior to taking his quests, he has asked for things like cyclopes, troll berserkers and doppelganger lords. So it might be true.
My recollection was that my testing showed this not to be the case, or at least, it's a very minor effect. I can't find the post where I researched this in detail, I'm afraid.

12-17-2012 06:46 PM
Junior Member
I think the most annoying monsters I've been asked to find were a giant rust monster and an ogre lord. In both cases, I'd gone straight from terinyo quests to DT, so there weren't any high DL places I'd visited before, and I was around lvl 13-15.

I think a more practical solution would be to just generate whatever monster he was asking for on a a relatively appropriate D level. So from D:1 to D:16 (or whatever Khellie's level is) Just the knowledge that that monster positively exists at the time of the generation of the quest would probably make the tedium for hunting him much more bearable. As to sometimes having to pass the animated forest early, I feel that missing out on the WoF is much less detrimental than forcing a player to scum TotHK or attempt the pyramid at level 13 just to get a chance of generating the monster (and subsequently dying if they are a newer player).

12-17-2012 07:18 PM
Ancient Member
Things to consider:

The reward for the quest has become more valueable for PCs starting with low Literacy.

It grants access to his other quests, of which the next one in the list is pretty dangerous. So a weak PC should probably not go there. Maybe it is better if he must gain a bit more XP.

Players will probably skip DF, now that you have to actually fight. That is if visiting DF has an inpact on which monster is chosen.

12-17-2012 08:28 PM
Member
I don't think this fix is necessary, although might be nice occasionally. Usually you can find the necessary monster sooner than later.

01-10-2013 11:16 AM
The Creator
Interestingly the game internally required a minimum rarity rating of rare for quest monsters (which exactly is the rating for vapor rats and cyclopses, just to name an example). Monsters that are very common are excluded from selection as are some special monsters (like dwarves and vortices). I have tuned down slightly the maximum permissible monster level which might help to ease things a bit. But in turn the game takes more effort to create a rather high level monster (e.g. one close to that limit). Let's test how this works out...

01-10-2013 11:17 AM
Ancient Member
Hmm, today I was told to slay a large bat, doesn't sound like that minimum rarity rating was working...

01-10-2013 11:52 AM
Ancient Member
Large bats seem to be the right kind of rarity to me, even if not the right kind of level.

(Incidentally, I'm always disappointed when I open this particular issue thread because of the lack of a particular pony in it.)

01-18-2013 02:07 AM
I've found for a long time now that it felt like it was nearly totally random, large bats to Werewolf Lords. I'm interested in getting a feel for how it is now.

Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
(Incidentally, I'm always disappointed when I open this particular issue thread because of the lack of a particular pony in it.)
Oh you. :)

01-18-2013 08:56 AM
Senior Member
I can't say I've tested this myself yet but it would be kind of amusing if a "make my ADOM life easier" RFE like this one ended up making our ADOM lives a little harder.

01-18-2013 04:26 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
(Incidentally, I'm always disappointed when I open this particular issue thread because of the lack of a particular pony in it.)
Delightful. There are too few ponies around here.

01-18-2013 05:30 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by aerol
I can't say I've tested this myself yet but it would be kind of amusing if a "make my ADOM life easier" RFE like this one ended up making our ADOM lives a little harder.
Imo this is exactly what happened. See here. Basically you still get vapor rats but rarely get anything easy any more.

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