Undead can pray
issueid=1682 01-08-2013 02:08 PM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by Laukku: 55
Undead can pray
The player can be sacrificed by undead, which doesn't make sense

Several undead creatures can pray to gods and sacrifice the player. Possibly all of them, but at least skeletons, shadow centipedes and ghost bats. This doesn't make sense for several reasons: Firstly, the player cannot sacrifice them and they don't have (normal) minds, indicating that they can't have a relationship with a god. Secondly, several undead shouldn't be able to talk at all due to their lack of necessary organs or being animal ghosts.

I suspect there's a flag for undead creatures that's supposed to make them unable to pray, but isn't working as expected and does the opposite instead (making them all able to pray).
Issue Details
Issue Number 1682
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Fixed
Priority 4
Affected Version ADOM 1.1.1
Fixed Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 9
Milestone (none)
Users able to reproduce bug 3
Users unable to reproduce bug 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




01-08-2013 02:51 PM
Ancient Member
It would be nice if skeletons & zombies were still able to pray, though. I don't know about thematic sense, but it's always fun when you find out for the first time they are neutral, and I would be very sad if this YASD disappeared.

01-08-2013 03:00 PM
Ancient Member
I've always viewed zombies and skeletons as mindless slaves. It would only make sense for the intelligent, greater undead to be religious, such as liches and vampires.

EDIT: Confirmation of shadow centipedes' prayer capability, plus some more discussion on the issue: http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread...ular-religious

01-08-2013 04:42 PM
Ancient Member
Mindless creatures are those that mindcraft will pass through harmlessly and without reacting. Mindcraft touching undead, even skeletons and zombies, finds ... something. It's vile and cruel and bears very little resemblance to the mind of a living being, but it's there. We don't know what higher (lowest) being undead will sacrifice you to, but given the dreadful state of their soulds, you also don't really want to know.

01-08-2013 04:51 PM
Ancient Member
I agree on basic undead (lower case) being unable to pray. But overall the only really necessary fix is shadow centipedes. I'm not fussed about skeletons being able to scream - they can move without ligaments, after all.

01-08-2013 04:58 PM
Senior Member
I agree that shadow centipedes shouldn't be able to pray. Other undead, I'm fine with.

01-08-2013 05:40 PM
Member
Gods in ADOM don't really seem to care about dead things. They don't accept sacrifices of undead monsters, so they probably wouldn't accept sacrifices by them either. Plus: for skeletons and zombies, they were animated by a necromancer somewhere, and thus have no will of their own to even make the decision to sacrifice somebody.

Shadow centipede I'm also against, as it is an insect, and if mindcraft doesn't work on it, then it doesn't have the ability to believe in a god anyway. No other insect type mobs, or even animal types that I can think of have the ability to sacrifice you.

01-08-2013 05:54 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
Mindless creatures are those that mindcraft will pass through harmlessly and without reacting. Mindcraft touching undead, even skeletons and zombies, finds ... something.
I know, using "mindless" in the context of ADOM was a bad choice. What I meant was that zombies aren't capable of producing more complex thougths than "BRRAAAAIINNS!" and have no free will of their own.

Quote Originally Posted by Grey
But overall the only really necessary fix is shadow centipedes.
Ghost bats, too.

Liches could actually be able of prayer, as they're mighty magicians who have cheated death, so it would make sense for their mind to remain intact after (un)death. Vampires also appear intelligent in modern portrayals, though I dunno about ADOM versions of them.

I'm not fussed about skeletons being able to scream - they can move without ligaments, after all.
Well, they can walk around because they're magically animated, but being able to talk without lips, tongue or lungs is pushing it. I know, magic can justify anything, but... :-/

01-08-2013 06:00 PM
Senior Member
I don't know about skeletons etc, but centipedes and bats praying are just weird, they are not intelligent in any way.

01-08-2013 07:22 PM
Senior Member
I had no idea ghost bats could pray. You learn something new every day.

01-09-2013 12:49 AM
Ancient Member
I would change this for skeletons, shadow centipedes and ghost bats.

Out of curiosity, anyone knows if steel zombies can also pray?

01-09-2013 02:33 AM
Ancient Member
I would have to agree that the process of going undead shouldn't have added sentience or intelligence to giant centipedes and bats that they didn't possess before - I'd change that, too. Skeletons are made from humanoid creatures likely using their souls as ingredients, so it's not completely unthinkable that they have just enough of what undead possess in place of a mind to perform unholy rites on the living they despise so very much.

01-09-2013 12:00 PM
The Creator
Fixed, though not for skeletons as those are internally rated as being "dumb" and not "mindless". So there is some evil intelligence in them :-]

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