Rebalance healing spells
issueid=2221 07-09-2013 11:24 AM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by asdf: 54
Rebalance healing spells

Currently heal spells are balanced, when you just start learning/using them.
Cure Light Wounds heals a little bit and is pretty common, Cure Serious Wounds/Cure Critical Wounds are expensive but powerful heals, and Heal (if you manage to find one) is simply amazing, yet power-hungry.
They roughly give *2 heal amount and *2 pp cost for each tier.

However, when you start to acquire character levels and casting levels - balance changes tremendously in favor of Cure Light Wounds.

1) You have more Cure Light Wound spellbooks then higher heals. It usually lead in using Cure Light Wounds as a main heal, and efficiency goes through the roof - it heals a little bit, you need to cast it a lot, and you have a lot of spellbooks to support this.
2) Every heal spell receives +1 to heal for +1 efficiency. This boosts Cure Light Wounds the biggest - you need just +6 Cure Light Wounds to double its heal and +13 Cure Serious Wounds to double their heal.
3) Spell cost reduction is flat too. This is important for Necromancers/Druids/low-level Priests. +10 Cure Light Wounds would cost 3pp and heal 12-19 hp (15.5 average, 5hp/pp) - while +5 Cure Critical Wounds would cost 14pp and heal 13-41 hp (27 average, 2hp/pp).

Everything combined, it usually results in following mid-game/end-game situation considering you find/main one heal - +20 Cure Light Wounds/+15 Cure Serious Wounds/+10 Cure Critical Wounds/+5 Heal (if you managed to find it).
When comparing those spells at those efficiency -
+20 CLW gives 22-29 HP (25.5 avg) for 2pp, giving amazing 12hp/pp healing. It lacks burst heal a little bit, but you have guaranteed potions of ultra/extra healing for this, and burst heal should be used only in critical situations, so those potions should suffice.
+15 CSW gives 19-37 HP (28 avg) for 7pp/5pp, giving 4(6)hp/pp healing. Healing is almost the same as Cure Light Wounds, but it costs ~3 times more to use and you have less spellbooks, so you need to use it carefully.
+10 CCW gives 18-46 HP (32 avg) for 13pp/7pp, giving 2.5(4.5)hp/pp healing. Same as Cure Serious Wounds, just worse. Healing increase is negligible, cost increase is really big.
+5 Heal gives 25-75 HP (50 avg) for 39pp/20pp, giving 1.25(2.5)hp/pp healing. You cant even use it in everyday life, just as burst heal, and potions outshines this skill.

There is paradoxal situation - cheapest and weakest heal spell is the best, because it is cheap, it is common and because of increased healing at high skill values - he is really strong too.

Suggestion:
Change increase of healing from +efficiency to: +0.66*E for CLW, +1*E(unchanged) for CSW, +2*E for CCW, +5*E for Heal.
Additionally increase Heal power from 10d6+10 to 10d6+20 - spellbook of Heal is really rare, and this skill is rarely usable at all, despite being the strongest one of the all.

This would make mid-end game heals looks like this, which seems a lot more balanced and more encouraging to use stronger heals to me -
+20 CLW - 15-22 HP (18.5 avg) for 2pp
+15 CSW - 19-37 HP (28 avg) for 7pp/5pp
+10 CCW - 28-56 HP (42 avg) for 13pp/7pp
+5 Heal - 55-105 HP (80 avg) for 39pp/20pp
Issue Details
Issue Number 2221
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 4
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 15
Implemented Version ADOM 2.3.6
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 9
Votes against this feature 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




07-09-2013 11:27 AM
Member
Is efficiency *usually* different from spell to spell? It seems to me that it would be a lot of extra programming to adjust the efficiency if not, and that simply adding a couple more points on the lower end would be easier in this case.

Myself, I haven't had any problem with this. It makes sense to me that lower level spells, if used a lot more, would be more likely to be better than a higher level one. Unless I have cast CLW up to a high amount early in the game before I find my first CSW, I'll have the mana to use CSW and get it up to a level where it's useful in fights. On the other hand, I find that even at high levels, CLW isn't worthwhile as a combat heal. It's great for out of combat 'fix ups', but it generally won't do enough in mid-fight to save your life. CSW, CCW, and Heal (if you can ever get it and cast it) does.

Due to Heal's purported power level, I would agree that giving it a kick to healing power would be not unduly useless! Considering the amount of mana to cast it and the difficulty in learning it, this is definitely not a spell that's going to be learned at Level 1.

07-09-2013 01:43 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Kurasu
CLW isn't worthwhile as a combat heal. It's great for out of combat 'fix ups', but it generally won't do enough in mid-fight to save your life. CSW, CCW, and Heal (if you can ever get it and cast it) does.
Difference between powerful CLW and not so powerful CSW/CCW as almost non-existant (~25/35/45 heal) compared to blessed potions of extra/ultra healing, which heals for 333 HP.
Think again. 333 HP. If you need burst heal - you will drink blessed potion of extra/ultra healing. If you need sustain heal - you would cast CLW because of mana efficiency. Situations where you need 35 or 45 HP heals with relatively big costs instead of almost free 25 HP heal or instant 333 HP heal... Maybe there are some. They are certanly very rare.

07-09-2013 03:41 PM
Ancient Member
I think these changes make good sense. The only reason to use Cure Serious Wounds is because you haven't found Cure Light Wounds yet.

07-09-2013 04:13 PM
Ancient Member
I also think it sounds good and makes sense really.

Remember healing spells aren't only there to target the PC.

07-10-2013 10:39 AM
Ancient Member
I agree with the proposal. One way to change Cure Light Wounds is to make the effectivity bonus apply to the dice side instead of being an added modifier. So it would heal 1d(8+e) instead of 1d8+e. This would reduce its power and its reliability.

Considering Heal's cost it should heal a proportion of your total hit points - something like (40+2*e)% of your max HP. Then it would remain useful throughout the game. Or perhaps there should be a "Greater Heal" along these lines, but highly expensive.

Cure Serious Wounds could just be removed from the game - it doesn't have much of a niche.

07-12-2013 06:27 AM
Ancient Member
I really like the proposal from asdf, it is just the sort of mild and straightforward rebalance that works best.

10-18-2017 01:58 PM
The Creator
Implemented as suggested by asdf. I love the proposal.

+ Reply