Reduce requirement for thieves' guild.
issueid=2547 12-11-2013 09:29 PM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by Stingray1: 97
Reduce requirement for thieves' guild.

I don't exactly know how many successful attempts are required to be eligible for the thieves' guild, but is just too many. It is mindless grinding the skill at the moment.

In my opinion around 30 successful "The -foo- doesn't seem to have anything of value." should be proof enough that you are a thief. When you actually steal something it should count as 2 or 3 successful attempts.

Pardon if this is a duplicate, but I did search.
Issue Details
Issue Number 2547
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 4
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 21
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 21
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 8
Votes against this feature 1
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-11-2013 09:38 PM
Ancient Member
I agree with this suggestion. With the pickpocket skill itself being harder to use, and, apparently, significantly more marks required to enter the guild than before (see 1697), I think that the current behaviour is a little extreme. Related: 1795 and 1464 (this one was supposedly implemented, but other changes have increased the difficulty overall).

12-11-2013 09:45 PM
Ancient Member
Yes, according to 1464 it was reduced. I have been pickpocketing for membership in my last three games and I agree it should be a chore, but still in its reduced state as it is now it still brinks on driving one mad. Maybe I'm just getting soft.

12-12-2013 09:08 AM
Senior Member
It is currently +5 for successful stealing and +1 for nothing of value, while needing 100 to be a member of a guild (pre10).

Reducing requirement to 30 seems perfectly fine, given how tedious and annoying pickpocketing currently is (seriously, Thiefs with 100 skill could easily fail it 5 times a row on mere goblin).

12-12-2013 09:20 AM
Senior Member
I don't know about pickpocketing on high skill levels since I only pickpocket to get Yergius training, but would having the pickpocket skill level count towards the marks be a good solution for the quest? So with 100 pickpocket you wouldn't actually have to pickpocket anyone.

12-12-2013 09:38 AM
Ancient Member
It takes ages to get it to 100, a wild guess from me is maybe only at xl 20 for the average character that uses it all the time, but it is very hot here so my guestimate might be totally out.

Ideally one wants Detect traps sorted prior to the Pyramid.

12-12-2013 09:50 AM
Senior Member
Yeah, but if you had the skill at 30, you would need to pickpocket 30% less. That's what I'm after.

Edit: So if you normally need to make 20 successful steals (according to asdf), with skill level 40 you would only need to make 12 successful steals.

12-12-2013 10:37 AM
Ancient Member
I vote yes. On the prereleases I don't even bother to get detect traps. It's just too much grinding for my taste.

A good solution IMHO would be making unsuccessful attempts not count at all (you haven't really stolen anything, after all), but make 3 or 4 successful attempts be enough.

12-12-2013 11:56 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Singbird
Yeah, but if you had the skill at 30, you would need to pickpocket 30% less. That's what I'm after.

Edit: So if you normally need to make 20 successful steals (according to asdf), with skill level 40 you would only need to make 12 successful steals.
Oh ok, I see what you mean. What I do like about your suggestion is that it would give easier access to races and classes that are in theory already trained thieves, eg. Gnomes, merchants and thieves.

12-12-2013 01:42 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
It takes ages to get it to 100, a wild guess from me is maybe only at xl 20 for the average character that uses it all the time, but it is very hot here so my guestimate might be totally out.

Ideally one wants Detect traps sorted prior to the Pyramid.
Your guesstimate is off by a lot. By the time one's character gets to Dwarftown and back out, you probably already met 100 safely pickpocketable monsters and if not, well, there's the infinite dungeon right next to the thieves guild, go and grind some.

The problem with the thieves guild entry procedure is not "it takes so long to get in", as delaying access to Detect Traps might very well be the point, the problem is tedious pickpocketing. I think that it would be best if it wasn't possible to retry. Then success rates could be upped back and tedium would be removed with only a little concession on the part of game balance (which could be counteracted anyway if necessary, by e.g. disabling shield and weapon DV/PV bonuses while pickpocketing) and simulation.

12-12-2013 03:06 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by zasvid
The problem with the thieves guild entry procedure is not "it takes so long to get in", as delaying access to Detect Traps might very well be the point, the problem is tedious pickpocketing. I think that it would be best if it wasn't possible to retry. Then success rates could be upped back and tedium would be removed with only a little concession on the part of game balance (which could be counteracted anyway if necessary, by e.g. disabling shield and weapon DV/PV bonuses while pickpocketing) and simulation.
I've made simular RFE ( http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=2384 ), it got downvoted by Vengeful Guardians of Tedious and Annoying, because -
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
The way pickpocketing works now, one can still reasonably without much grinding get accepted into the thieves guild, if you make a point of it to calm monsters and only steal from calm ones. And don't try to steal from special monsters generated in areas that already produce extra items, you greedy sod.
Now the same Guardians are starting this RFE to limit Tedious and Annoying in the same skill, just to use it to their purpose.
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
I don't exactly know how many successful attempts are required to be eligible for the thieves' guild, but is just too many. It is mindless grinding the skill at the moment.
I find this quite amusing, to be honest.

12-12-2013 03:38 PM
Ancient Member
Have you heard the term, "change of mind". I had one of those, it amused me too. I was laughing at myself yesterday when reading those posts you qouted.

The tests I conducted just prior to your RFE, concluded for me then that, yes it was work, but acceptable. That was then and this is now. After you mentioned it takes 100 successes, 30 is maybe too low. I have always maintained that the amount should be reduced. Back then I was a grinder, I have changed my ways since.

P.S. I did not discredit your suggestions in that RFE. I just checked, I haven't even voted on it yet. I think some of the ideas in it is very neat. My responses there was merely relating to the point of view on theft count from a grinder.

P.P.S. It related to access to the thieves' guild, which this RFE relates to. I will be editing my post in your RFE.

P.P.P.S. In that same post I said I liked your suggestions? Besides I was not trying to guard tedious practices, I was giving you solutions to make it less tedious, the least you could do is thank me.
I went through all the effort of especially creating two characters to test pick pocketing( which I despise doing ) for the benefit of others, not to try and be vengeful or annoying or what the fuck ever cute names you think up.

P.P.P.P.S. I did not attempt to insult you when you used some of my ideas in your RFE, so why do that here in my RFE. What ever did I do to you?

@zasvid I was referring to getting the skill to 100, not the theft counter.

12-12-2013 06:33 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
P.P.P.P.S. I did not attempt to insult you when you used some of my ideas in your RFE, so why do that here in my RFE. What ever did I do to you?
This is just standing meme in IRC chat about Vengeful Guardians of Tedious and Annoying, who downvote everything which could help the player and upvote everything which will somehow limit him, because game is "too easy", nothing personal or offensive intended, sorry for that

12-12-2013 07:07 PM
Ancient Member
Ok, don't make assumptions about me. All my ideas lately are directed at keeping the game fun and fair and not tedious. Yet, I do not think it is a good thing for players to waltz through it either. e: That would be just plain boring.

So, Annoying Guardian of Balance is appropriate. ;)

01-22-2014 07:58 PM

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