Make Campaign Monsters generate at a higher level
issueid=2640 01-14-2014 10:15 AM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by Dogbreath: 74
Make Campaign Monsters generate at a higher level
The "You feel a Blood Chilling Threat" monsters should generate 5-10 levels above the current dungeon danger level.

*NOTE* This post is edited from the original, to make it more coherent and let people vote on the issue. Original post (explains first 22 posts in thread included below)
Besides the apparent bug of about 1/2 of all "Blood Chilling Threat" monsters not actually being generated, the ones that are generated are usually extreme pushovers. I recommend they be generated 5-10 (or even 15) levels about the current danger level to make them an actual threat. (Or maybe just so they don't die when you blow on them too hard)

Original Post:
Of all the times I've gotten the "blood chilling threat" message, I've only encountered the monster ~40% of the time. The rest of the time, it gets killed by other monsters before I can see it. Basically, just make them like Jharod - completely ignored by other monsters on the level. That way people can actually see these monsters and enjoy them.
Issue Details
Issue Number 2640
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 10 - Lowest
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 21
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 21
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 6
Votes against this feature 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




01-14-2014 10:59 AM
Ancient Member
Or actually make them a threat, then they maybe won't get killed so easily by other monsters.

01-14-2014 11:36 AM
Ancient Member
Are you sure they get killed by other monsters? My impression was that they just didn't appear at all.

If they get killed by other monsters I suppose the easiest solution is to make them like other monsters, not necessarily by Jharod. I mean, normally monsters are all allied against the PC, they don't fight each other much. If monsters have something against these bosses, that's not too normal.

01-14-2014 11:52 AM
Ancient Member
They are boss monsters after all - as Stingray said, they should be much stronger.
It's one thing to encounter a nice monster with a special description, another to have it die after just one hit with a 1d8+3 orcish spear wielded by my St:12 wizard.

01-14-2014 01:50 PM
Member
Maybe about as strong as artifact guardians? And have them drop treasure when they die, like dragons do--not unusually good items necessarily, but unusually many.

01-14-2014 02:01 PM
Ancient Member
Artifact guardians are extremely rare so boss monsters would have to be significantly weaker than those while significantly stronger than the normal type.

01-14-2014 02:44 PM
Ancient Member
I'm almost positive that the problem is that they are just not being spawned sometimes. I've used wands of monster detection immediately after getting the message and have not seen them anyway. This is a reported bug, IIRC.

That said, I do think that boss monsters need, at very least, a nice boost to their HP so they don't die in 1 hit all the time. Double or even triple HP would not be unreasonable, IMHO.

01-14-2014 05:43 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
Or actually make them a threat, then they maybe won't get killed so easily by other monsters.
Quote Originally Posted by Al-Khwarizmi
Are you sure they get killed by other monsters? My impression was that they just didn't appear at all.
This, this, and another thing that could use tweaking is their spawn rate. Even bosses which have very common monsters as their base type show up only very rarely. That, in addition to how easily most of them go down, makes the "bosses" a rather bland challenge in their current status.

01-14-2014 08:30 PM
Senior Member
Maybe they should be generated 10 or 15 XP levels above the DL? That way they'd actually be a serious threat.

01-14-2014 08:35 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Dogbreath
Maybe they should be generated 10 or 15 XP levels above the DL? That way they'd actually be a serious threat.
Um, that would make them really hard (and some of them are already quite difficult). The best solution is definitely to adjust HP because otherwise they get more attacks, vortices do tons more damage, things punch through your armor, etc.

01-14-2014 08:42 PM
Ancient Member
Oh, no. Please don't give us threats that are threats. Monsters that can hurt us, that is absurd.

01-14-2014 08:49 PM
Ancient Member
Are any of them really that difficult? Aside from the ones who have bugged attacks like the orc scorcher who throws a poison spear that deals 300 damage per turn? I don't recall any of the bosses that I've come across putting up much of a fight.

01-14-2014 09:35 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
Oh, no. Please don't give us threats that are threats. Monsters that can hurt us, that is absurd.
Have you ever tried to take on the SMC at level 10 (not just run through it - actually fight)? It's pretty fucking hard - now imagine getting any sort of boss between levels, say, 1 and 15 - that +10 DL (not even considering the +15) is going to make things pretty damn difficult. Imagine getting a boss monster in the UD (which can be deadly enough with ogre magi) - you're looking at DL 18 right there.

Sure, bosses should be challenging, but a lot of the bosses were created with specific powers to make them more difficult - e.g. the invisible acid vortex. Giving them a lot more levels is just going to make them very frustrating to fight.

01-14-2014 09:48 PM
Ancient Member
I think I may have fought in the SMC at xl 10, but I don't recall it. I only recall fighting there at xl 35 to 44, that was pretty tough yes.

A threat should maybe be threat though, something that can kill you, otherwise it isn't really a threat.

01-14-2014 11:44 PM
Ancient Member
I agree. Making them a threat would also turn them from a flavour element into a game feature.

EDIT: But maybe not 15DL. You can also make it 5 I guess.

01-15-2014 05:10 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by SirTheta
Have you ever tried to take on the SMC at level 10 (not just run through it - actually fight)? It's pretty fucking hard - now imagine getting any sort of boss between levels, say, 1 and 15 - that +10 DL (not even considering the +15) is going to make things pretty damn difficult. Imagine getting a boss monster in the UD (which can be deadly enough with ogre magi) - you're looking at DL 18 right there.

Sure, bosses should be challenging, but a lot of the bosses were created with specific powers to make them more difficult - e.g. the invisible acid vortex. Giving them a lot more levels is just going to make them very frustrating to fight.
Yes. What makes the SMC so difficult at level 10 is that you're fighting a SHIT TON of monsters who are 10 levels higher than you. Any one of those monsters aren't that big of a threat.

That being said, I feel boss monsters *should* be dangerous. You're warned whenever they're generated, and it's not like you can't run away. I feel a "blood chilling threat" *should* be something that matches the description - i.e, it's going to be a tough fight, and you might get your ass kicked if you're not prepared. I want players to feel a sharp thrill down their spine when they see the message, similar to "you feel excited!" or "you feel a surge of power!" I want them to be memorable, interesting fights. It shouldn't be a monster you can kill with 1 hit.

01-15-2014 08:33 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Dogbreath
That being said, I feel boss monsters *should* be dangerous. You're warned whenever they're generated, and it's not like you can't run away. I feel a "blood chilling threat" *should* be something that matches the description - i.e, it's going to be a tough fight, and you might get your ass kicked if you're not prepared. I want players to feel a sharp thrill down their spine when they see the message, similar to "you feel excited!" or "you feel a surge of power!" I want them to be memorable, interesting fights. It shouldn't be a monster you can kill with 1 hit.
Yes, but then the rewards would need to be increased considerably as well. Who's going to risk their PC's life just to get a normal drop?

01-15-2014 08:59 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
Are any of them really that difficult? Aside from the ones who have bugged attacks like the orc scorcher who throws a poison spear that deals 300 damage per turn? I don't recall any of the bosses that I've come across putting up much of a fight.
while not annoying there are some quite frustrating ones. There is a cat that walks through walls and an invisible cat. Both of which imho shouldn't have been allowed. if you spawn the first one your only option at a low level is to lure it to dwarftown and hope a guardian kills it.

01-15-2014 09:30 AM
Ancient Member
That cat should at least be made possible to be calmed.

01-15-2014 01:52 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
That cat should at least be made possible to be calmed.
Who said it's not possible?

I've tamed boss monsters - it's kinda meh though.

01-15-2014 03:22 PM
Ancient Member
I faintly recall attempting to calm one with a few morsels and it didn't work, maybe I did not attempt enough, so maybe it is possible already as you confirmed. I must also look up the word 'meh', cannot believe I haven't done that yet. :)

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