Originally Posted by

**Aielyn**
I understand that a RoDS has a 4% chance, roughly, on DL:8. If this is accurate, then a dip of 19 rings has a 54% chance of producing at least one RoDS. To me, this is a bit too high

The chances of getting a stack of 19 rings outside of gremlin bombing is pretty much zero. I recently had a very slow run through pre22 (over 100,000 turns, with no spamming actions or waiting on the spot), including pickpocketing EVERY humanoid opponent that I came across (even those in vaults and tension rooms), with a

*thief*. The largest stack of rings I obtained was a stack of 6. Your post has 2 major weaknesses, and this is the main one - collecting a stack of 19 rings isn't trivial, it's FAR harder than, say, closing a couple of chaos gates.

ironically enough, while the change made it so that you need a lot more rings, it also made it more stable once set up

I doubt it's stable when you think it is, though. i can see what you're getting at, but as pointed out earlier, the current wish engines 'bleed' rings of gain attributes (among others), so even when you have your ~300 rings all in nice DLVL:8 stacks of 19, you'll end up, after a few iterations, with a load of unstacked rings of +1 dexterity or +2 strength or +1 toughness etc.

If you collect enough rings to have THOSE stacked to 19 (probably over 5000 rings at this point), the new wish engine finally becomes stable.

The problem with a wish engine, before, was that any character would be a fool not to try dipping a stack of 5 rings in a potion of exchange. If it rolled a RoDS, you had about a 75% chance of starting a wish engine (or enough wishes to win the game if you didn't want to try a wish engine). If it didn't, you got basically nothing. What i'm saying is, wish engines kinda started themselves without any real time invested by the player!

In newer versions, a typical player has a decent chance of getting a wish (normally about 20%, so nowhere near the chance you get from darkforge pool sipping, but less effort, too), but no real chance of getting a wish engine or enough wishes to break the game.

I really think players that are suggesting changes due to the current 'possibility' of wish engines need to actually go out there and make a stable wish engine in the current version. Only then can you appreciate how much more work it is than killing Andor Drakon.