No random vaults in CoC?
issueid=4357 07-25-2016 08:34 PM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by Harkila: 63
No random vaults in CoC?
Seems like R65 does not generate random vaults in CoC.

This might be just a freak occurrence of RNG, but reporting this still as it feels quite strange...

I'm working on my 5th game with R65, and not once have I encountered a randomly-generated greater vault in CoC. Only the guaranteed D:46 vault. Also, I haven't seen any lesser vaults below the wall of flames, and not sure if I've seen them earlier, either. When playing 1.0.0, having 1-2 greater vaults randomly generated was common, and 0 was rather rare. Therefore believing that 5 games in a row with none is not what it's supposed to be. :) Has anyone else seen those?

Lesser vaults are found in other dungeons, but CoC seems stripped. With the late game having not so much content apart from the dive, it'd be quite unfortunate if this was a deliberate change.
Issue Details
Issue Number 4357
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status In Progress
Priority 4
Affected Version ADOM r65 (v2.1.0)
Fixed Version ADOM r68 (v2.2.2)
Milestone (none)
Users able to reproduce bug 5
Users unable to reproduce bug 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




07-25-2016 10:15 PM
Ancient Member
Now that I think of it, I don't remember seeing any greater vaults in the CoC except the D45/46 one. This goes back at least as far as R60.

Lesser vaults in CoC also seem a lot rarer, especially in the early levels. I don't know if I can say that I've never seen one, but I haven't been paying close attention. Marking this as reproduced, though it could just be bad luck.

07-26-2016 05:40 AM
Ancient Member
i've noticed alot less vaults in the CoC, the UD is unaffected - i had 3 in the UD alone last play through, yet basically none for the others.

also seen no lesser vaults past the wall of flames in a very very long time whereas i'm pretty sure they used to happen.

07-27-2016 09:13 PM
Ancient Member
FWIW, on my most recent run, I saw a greater vault on D:38, but did not see any lesser vaults anywhere in the CoC.

[edit]On the subsequent game, the only vault in the CoC aside from the guaranteed greater was a single lesser dragon vault on D:47

08-18-2016 12:22 PM
Junior Member
Bouncing this one up in hopes of more vaults into CoC. So far, in ~10 games of R65 & R66, not a single random greater vault, nor lesser vault in CoC.

08-20-2016 08:24 AM
The Creator
Although nothing has been changed here for years, I have slightly increased the chance for vaults and greater vaults. I also have added two new maps for greater vaults.

This petition for a change to In Progress was accepted
10-11-2016 07:02 PM
Junior Member
Nice two new greater vault layouts, but I'm still claiming there's something very strange here. There are absolutely no random vaults to be found in CoC, lesser or greater, again in multiple games in R69. Compared to 1.0.0, the amount of pools and especially forges seem excess. Also there's a lot of statues. Can there be some bug that prevents a generation of a vault if some other feature is there?
 

10-17-2016 10:18 AM
Senior Member
Had a lesser vault show up on D:9 in my last r69 game.

10-17-2016 11:29 AM
Junior Member
Yes, I've also had single lesser vaults generated, with the frequency of maybe 1 per two games. (Sorry for exaggerating a bit in frustration in my previous message.) And not a single random GV yet. Compared to 1.0.0 with its 5-7 lesser and 0-2 greater vaults per game being typical, the change is considerable.

And like said before, the other dungeons seem to work normally. Vaults are found in UD and the random dungeons.

10-19-2016 09:36 AM
Senior Member
I've heard vault locations are decided at char gen. Maybe the total vault count is fixed and random dungeons are spreading out the vault distribution? (Incidentally not my favourite piece of new content, seems a bit 'filler'). Randoms are 45 levels in total, approximately halving vault chance in COC. That's if it works that way though...

10-19-2016 09:52 AM
Senior Member
Could it be connected to the monster generation/danger level changes? In 1.0.0 there was a bug where higher DL monsters weren't generated in CoC...

10-19-2016 10:02 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by auricbond
I've heard vault locations are decided at char gen. Maybe the total vault count is fixed and random dungeons are spreading out the vault distribution? (Incidentally not my favourite piece of new content, seems a bit 'filler'). Randoms are 45 levels in total, approximately halving vault chance in COC. That's if it works that way though...
Yes, they are decided at char generation in my understanding, too. Your idea would seem plausible, but it doesn't support the findings that CoC especially seems stripped of vaults, and others are not. It should be more even. I had 4 vaults in UD alone in my current game (which of course is on the higher side), but so far none still in CoC, again.

This petition for a change to In Progress was accepted
11-21-2016 04:41 PM
Senior Member
Went back to 1.1.1 and did a few tests, and the difference is really quite marked. In five 1.1.1 runs I found seven vaults before dwarftown, with each run having at least one vault, and one run having three. In five r69 runs I found one vault before dwarftown.
 

11-21-2016 07:04 PM
Ancient Member
Maybe check the difference between pre23 and r48? That's where the random dungeons were added.

Pre 12 added statues, which I guess could be another culprit.

11-21-2016 08:45 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
Maybe check the difference between pre23 and r48? That's where the random dungeons were added.

Pre 12 added statues, which I guess could be another culprit.
r48 seems to be the point where early CoC vaults got much rarer. In five pre23 runs I found five vaults before dwarftown. In five r48 runs I found zero vaults before dwarftown.

11-21-2016 09:52 PM
Ancient Member
Okay, speculation... I'm guessing what the algorithm does is pick a number of lesser vaults, then populate them to dungeons in a specific order. Eg... game rolls 2d4 lesser vaults. PC:6 gets the first one. UD gets, let's say, 0-4. In 1.1.1, CoC gets the rest. In new versions, however, random dungeons also get a few. Since CoC gets whatever is left, it gets depopulated due to the random dungeons, and on low rolls often gets zero.

Likewise, I'd imagine that the game rolls 0-4 greater vaults, and assigns two to D:45/6 and IQD at the outset, so in 3 out of every 5 games you don't see more than two.

11-22-2016 07:26 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
Okay, speculation... I'm guessing what the algorithm does is pick a number of lesser vaults, then populate them to dungeons in a specific order. Eg... game rolls 2d4 lesser vaults. PC:6 gets the first one. UD gets, let's say, 0-4. In 1.1.1, CoC gets the rest. In new versions, however, random dungeons also get a few. Since CoC gets whatever is left, it gets depopulated due to the random dungeons, and on low rolls often gets zero.

Likewise, I'd imagine that the game rolls 0-4 greater vaults, and assigns two to D:45/6 and IQD at the outset, so in 3 out of every 5 games you don't see more than two.
That would seem possible, would the impression not be that indeed the CoC is stripped of vaults, and they are pretty well found elsewhere.
CoC has roughly 50 % of the random dungeon levels in any game which can generate vaults, so by your theory, it should have about 2/3 of what it used to have (since UD and some other locations were there already). But CoC is down to maybe 5 % of what it used to be.

It would explain the lack of greater vaults, though, if the FGJC5 and D:45 are counted. Having more than two GVs was rare even in 1.0.0.

11-22-2016 08:02 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Harkila
That would seem possible, would the impression not be that indeed the CoC is stripped of vaults, and they are pretty well found elsewhere.
CoC has roughly 50 % of the random dungeon levels in any game which can generate vaults, so by your theory, it should have about 2/3 of what it used to have (since UD and some other locations were there already). But CoC is down to maybe 5 % of what it used to be.

It would explain the lack of greater vaults, though, if the FGJC5 and D:45 are counted. Having more than two GVs was rare even in 1.0.0.
CoC has something like 35 levels that can contain a vault, and something like 46 new levels that can contain a vault were added. So it seems plausible that these could "soak up" almost all of the CoC vaults (maybe I am misunderstanding this theory).

11-22-2016 09:16 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Harkila
That would seem possible, would the impression not be that indeed the CoC is stripped of vaults, and they are pretty well found elsewhere.
CoC has roughly 50 % of the random dungeon levels in any game which can generate vaults, so by your theory, it should have about 2/3 of what it used to have (since UD and some other locations were there already). But CoC is down to maybe 5 % of what it used to be.

It would explain the lack of greater vaults, though, if the FGJC5 and D:45 are counted. Having more than two GVs was rare even in 1.0.0.
No, because the order is important. The game rolls a number of vaults to be generated, then each area rolls separately to claim a certain number of them. But the order that they claim them is fixed... PC first, then UD, then random dungeons, then the remainder go to CoC. If the player rolls low and the random dungeons roll high, then the CoC doesn't get any vaults at all. Say you roll 6 vaults in the game. PC claims 1, so you have 5 left. UD claims 3, so you have 2 left. Random claims 1, so you have 1 left, and that 1 ends up in the CoC. Or, alternately, the player rolls 7. PC claims 1, 6 left. UD claims 4, 2 left. Random rolls a 3, which is forced down to the remaining two. And there's none at all left for CoC. They aren't split evenly between the random dungeons and the CoC because the random dungeons get to take theirs first.

11-23-2016 05:08 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
No, because the order is important. The game rolls a number of vaults to be generated, then each area rolls separately to claim a certain number of them. But the order that they claim them is fixed... PC first, then UD, then random dungeons, then the remainder go to CoC. If the player rolls low and the random dungeons roll high, then the CoC doesn't get any vaults at all. Say you roll 6 vaults in the game. PC claims 1, so you have 5 left. UD claims 3, so you have 2 left. Random claims 1, so you have 1 left, and that 1 ends up in the CoC. Or, alternately, the player rolls 7. PC claims 1, 6 left. UD claims 4, 2 left. Random rolls a 3, which is forced down to the remaining two. And there's none at all left for CoC. They aren't split evenly between the random dungeons and the CoC because the random dungeons get to take theirs first.
Ok, now I got your point. Quite interesting hypothesis. Let's see if TB confirms you right :)

06-22-2017 03:01 PM
The Creator
Quote Originally Posted by Harkila
Ok, now I got your point. Quite interesting hypothesis. Let's see if TB confirms you right :)
That's not how it works.

+ Reply