Remove question-based character generation
issueid=4853 07-15-2017 08:34 AM
The Creator
Number of reported issues by adom-admin: 283
Remove question-based character generation

I no longer enjoy it because
  • it is ugly
  • it is tedious
  • it doesn't really enhance the story as I intended originally
  • it simply seems to be a way of point-optimization
  • the efforts required to make it more worthwhile are too high.
Issue Details
Issue Number 4853
Issue Type Task
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Completed
Priority 2
Target Version ADOM r73 (v2.2.7)
Completed Version Next Release
Milestone "Ease of Use" UI
Votes to perform 7
Votes not to perform 6
Assigned Users adom-admin
Tags (none)




07-15-2017 08:42 AM
Ancient Member
As I mentioned on Facebook, I enjoy it because it can enhance immersion. I confess that I use random generation for the majority of my characters, but from time to time I feel like giving a character a true personality and story, and the questions help a lot with that. I would be sad to see them go.

I wouldn't mind if the questions give the same or fewer points as other options like point-based generation, as I have never used them spoiled for optimization and don't see much sense in that, but I would like them to stay for the flavor.

07-15-2017 08:57 AM
Junior Member
I, for one, do enjoy the ability to make an immersive character. But I feel that making a user go through it without choice (other than using R to speed through with possible penalties) isn't really a good choice given the expansion thanks to steam. In all honesty, I like D&D 5's deal where you get random rolls and you allocate the rolls into wherever you want (but you have to choose a specific die for a specific attribute, no partials).

07-15-2017 08:59 AM
Ancient Member
Without choice? I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point, but there is random character generation and now point-based character generation. So there is a lot of choice and no player is forced to use the questions at all.

07-15-2017 09:22 AM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
I would lie if I say I miss it in it's current form. I don't use it only because my experience showed that random characters are getting slightly higher attributes. Not a good reward for passing such a process.

On the other hand it is a big disappointment to lose an ability to make an immersive character for future. Impression it gives is really great. Disappointment comes only when you discover that it's only about the attributes. I'm 100% for improving it rather than removing. But if improving isn't a choice... Yeah, farewell question based generation... :'(

07-15-2017 10:51 AM
Junior Member
I agree with this post. It adds too much time to character creation for too little reward.

I would only ever use it to make low To and St challenge characters, and it was fiddly.

07-15-2017 11:04 AM
Senior Member
I use it sometimes to try make more custom stat character builds, checking wiki for each question and stat gain/loss. Storywise it doesn't really do anything for me. I understand some people wanting it for story as well. So I don't want to vote for removal. I just stop using it if/when point-based character generation improves. I would probably lean towards leaving it as it is, since there are people who want to use it and some people might get mad for removing it. It doesn't bother me there as an option even if I don't use it, so no harm leaving it as it is imo. That said I voted No, even if I don't use it.

07-15-2017 01:47 PM
Senior Member
I don't see any point in taking it away if there are people out there who enjoy it, but I go through so many PC's and if there's one thing i've learned in ADOM it's not to get too attached to a character, so I don't bother with it. Plus unless you spoil yourself you can't really exploit the stat effects. Perhaps it could be tweaked somehow to be more appealing, but in what way I am not sure.

07-15-2017 02:46 PM
Junior Member
I really hated the way it was non-transparent. I mean, you could've got the best of both worlds with answers that were clear both story- and effect-wise. Like, I don't know, Bloodnet did it. You were presented with a situation and the solution to that situation (you used a hidden weapon, you used your tech skills, you used your brute force, etc) were immediately indicative of your skills and attributes.

07-15-2017 03:35 PM
Junior Member
Since point based generation is being improved, I don't really see much of a reason to keep it.

07-15-2017 07:12 PM
Senior Member
I like it, but I wish that the questions had a stronger effect on the character: for example, by adjusting starting alignment or adding/subtracting from the initial inventory. The attribute adjustments are relatively boring and invisible--I'm not saying they should be removed, but they should be supplemented by one or two more obvious changes.

See also:
http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=2386
http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=4162

07-16-2017 10:47 AM
Junior Member
Certainly, straight up removing the questionnaire is the easiest way by far. I do have a few thoughts, in rough order of radicalness:

My impression of questionnaire generation, the few times I used it, has always been "wow, this is a lot more questions than I expected". Simply reducing the number of questions on a given try might help.

Some of the answers feel like they should have an impact on your alignment - when you do something clearly chaotic like betraying someone, for instance. The possibility of alternate or additional effects of answers has been raised once or twice above.

The impact of your answers on your stats is fundamentally rather invisible unless you consult a table compiled by people who've put the time into examining the system. More transparency here would both help the player make an informed decision and show the player that their decisions here matter and have a tangible effect on the character. ADOM places a lot of weight on figuring out hidden information through trial and error, but in the questionnaire system this is heavily obfuscated. The simplest way of adding transparency here would be to just show you what stats you gained up front, or in a screen after the question - see my next thought.

What if you had a small number, something like three to five, vignettes from your character's past (probably based on the questions available now) presented to you, and then based on your answer got a screen with a short summary, a sentence or so, of what happens afterwards along with a note of the benefits you got, which could be bonuses or penalties to stats, an alignment penalty or bonus, extra gold or less gold, a modification of your starting inventory, etcetera, tailored to the scenario. If you help out a merchant who then rewards you, you might start with extra gold, if you studied under a wizard you might have a random potion to start with or even a free reading from a low-level spellbook with the right answer. The small number of questions does several things here:

It makes it easier to balance the addition of non-attribute bonuses or penalties by reducing the gap between your beginning and end states, allowing you to tune the tradeoff between attribute points and other effects with the knowledge there will only be a few. It also makes the balance less important, because:
The smaller sample size increases the variance between individual questionnaires, making it less attractive an option for pure optimization, as you can't guarantee you will even get the option to influence your character in the direction you want. The potential of benefits you can't get from other creation methods means it's still possible for players who are interested in that to want to use the system and optimize their choices.
It redues the tedium and barrier to entry of the system, naturally.

Finally, the limited number of questions combined with the active, visible feedback you get should make the choices that much more memorable for players who are into the roleplaying aspect.

Now this would be much more work than just excising the system altogether, obviously, so I definitely wouldn't blame you for going ahead and doing so, given it's ultimately a pretty small part of the game. I do agree that its current state isn't ideal either way, especially with point-based creation taking away the aspect of giving a player more control over their character's attributes.

07-16-2017 09:47 PM
The Creator
Latest idea: Add a configuration setting to deactivate it by default.
Maybe use the game counter to point people actively to this feature once they have played 100+ games.

07-16-2017 11:35 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
Latest idea: Add a configuration setting to deactivate it by default.
Maybe use the game counter to point people actively to this feature once they have played 100+ games.
The Questioned_Attributes setting served this purpose in the old character generation process. In the new process, you can just select your preferred generation method once and never have to worry about questions again - IMO further configuration options are not really needed here.

07-17-2017 06:38 AM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
Latest idea: Add a configuration setting to deactivate it by default.
Sounds fair enough. There is an option "Questioned_Attributes" which is used for this purposes. It is slightly buggy though. I wouldn't point out until it is really worthy to use

07-17-2017 01:52 PM
Junior Member
I've never been a huge fan of it, myself. It's kind of fun and pretty unique, but from a story perspective most of the questions make little sense as actual background events for any given character. Its length also makes it into a considerable barrier to actually getting the game started.

[Facebook repost]

07-17-2017 09:43 PM
Junior Member
I have no problem with this being completely removed. .. There is a little bit of me that would miss it, but that's purely a nostalgic "I remember the gypsy from Ultima IV, V, etc" thing. (Ultima being my main experience of computer-based RPG's before ADOM.) But, thinking about my use of ADOM over the last 10+ years, I've probably only ever used question-based character creation once of twice.

But, if there is that much resistance to its disappearance, having it deactivated-by-default with a config-option sounds like a good way to go. Random and points-based creation is plenty of choice IMHO.

07-18-2017 06:18 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
Latest idea: Add a configuration setting to deactivate it by default.
Maybe use the game counter to point people actively to this feature once they have played 100+ games.
Very strongly opposed to this!! I hate this mechanic, and it creates problems with the bug temple already (http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=4110)

07-18-2017 08:39 PM
Senior Member
Is it really that bad to have it there as visible option that it should be deactivated or removed? What's the harm leaving it there as it is, since some people enjoy it? I don't get it. You are not forced to use it. Sure it might be outdated, but when there are people using it, what's the harm?

07-19-2017 04:51 AM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Shinae
Is it really that bad to have it there as visible option that it should be deactivated or removed? What's the harm leaving it there as it is, since some people enjoy it? I don't get it. You are not forced to use it. Sure it might be outdated, but when there are people using it, what's the harm?
Point of deactivating is hiding it from new players so that they don't get confused and/or disappointed by the system. unless they really want to find out knowing it's not that cool as it looks like. Of course bearing in mind it will be vastly improved someday and on by default again.

07-19-2017 06:00 AM
Ancient Member
Make it disabled by default. (Questioned_Attributes=false) It can then be enabled in the .cnf file by those who wish to experiment with it.

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