Point buy does not correctly predict final stats
issueid=5133 09-28-2017 06:25 AM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by BenMathiesen: 92
Point buy does not correctly predict final stats

Tried to make a bard with seven league boots in point buy, forgoing a couple of points to spend so that display showed Talents: 3. But when I continued making the character, I only had two talents.

[EDIT] Updated title to describe problem better. I still observe this in the Steam beta. Correctly predicting the no. of talents on the point buy screen seems to be a side effect of this.
Issue Details
Issue Number 5133
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All without NotEye
Status Fixed
Priority 5 - Medium
Affected Version ADOM 2.3.5
Fixed Version ADOM 3.0.1
Milestone (none)
Users able to reproduce bug 7
Users unable to reproduce bug 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




10-04-2017 09:51 PM
The Creator
In all my attempts I failed to reproduce this so far :-/ Any more hints?

10-05-2017 07:53 AM
Senior Member
Just tried again, same problem. It's not necessarily a bug, rather a UI issue that raises the wrong expectation in players.

I generated a female human bard. While assigning points, the display on top says Talents: 2 most of the time.
I distribute points, and when I reach the last few I increase Appearance until the display says Talents: 3.
Then I hit space to continue, leaving some points unspent.
I think then the game applies the background modifiers, so the total of my attributes is no longer an even multiple of seven.
Then I see the talent selection screen, and I can only select two talents.

I think the easiest fix is just not to display the number of talents on the point assignment screen, or show only the bonus talents from race/class.

10-05-2017 02:20 PM
The Creator
Nope, there are no background modifiers applied. Are the final attributes (when the game starts) different from the ones you distributed?

Can you show me a screen shot of the exact settings of your character process (star signs, gender, race, etc.)... ?

10-06-2017 10:35 AM
Senior Member
Screenshots attached.
This is version 2.3.3. And the final attributes of the bard are not the same as the ones displayed in point buy.
Initial star, gender, and race were random. I chose bard, then [p] point buy.
Ben

10-08-2017 01:32 PM
The Creator
Is there any way to reproduce this with non-random settings? I just don't see it in my tests :-/

10-08-2017 04:47 PM
Senior Member
I made a few more characters in 2.3.4. There isn't a mismatch all the time, but it happens often enough that you should be able to see it. Unless there could be something in my adom_dat folder that's messing it up? I'll try deleting that.

Anyway, I've reproduced it with both random sign/race/sex and nonrandom sign/race/sex. I've always tried it with bards.

Screenshots of the latest orc bard, created using nonrandom choices, attached.

10-08-2017 05:47 PM
Ancient Member
I had it happen twice in a row just now.

Creating in 2.3.4, using point buy, I used the talent count to tune my stats.
Mana =18 (+1 talent), stat sum % 7 = 0 ( +1 talent), so had a total of 4 lined up.
Male Gnome Assassin / Cup,

When I got to the talent choice screen, only allowed to pick 2 talents. Mana went from 18 to 16 (then I chose the +1 mana talent to experiment, and got 17)

10-09-2017 07:33 PM
The Creator
Ok, I found the difference. It's age. And age seems to get rerolled.

10-09-2017 08:23 PM
The Creator
But it still doesn't explain the problem as it is not rerolled... *sigh*

10-17-2017 01:04 PM
Senior Member
Still observing this problem in the steam beta.

10-18-2017 07:52 PM
Junior Member
This happened to me too. My observation is that I probably didn't get the "sum is divisible by 7" extra talent, but didn't remember the stats predicted by the point-buy screen so that I could compare them to the final stats one by one. I'll be reporting back when I have more extensive test results.

10-18-2017 08:31 PM
Senior Member
I hate myself for saying this, but...

I wonder if it's still appropriate to give an extra talent to characters with a stat total multiple of 7 in points-buy, given how easy it is to add or drop a couple of points in a near-irrelevant stat to gain it.

I don't want to lose my easy talent though! Maybe starting talents should always be 2?

10-18-2017 10:12 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by shockeroo
I hate myself for saying this, but...

I wonder if it's still appropriate to give an extra talent to characters with a stat total multiple of 7 in points-buy, given how easy it is to add or drop a couple of points in a near-irrelevant stat to gain it.

I don't want to lose my easy talent though! Maybe starting talents should always be 2?
I'm okay with sacrificing a few points to get that talent. I don't really think it should be removed. I'm not sure if we should get 2 starting talents without sacrificing a stat point or two. It would certainly make putting points into appearance more useful ;)

I rolled a dwarf paladin last night with no possible talent changing things, and got the extra talent based on the multiple of 7. Not sure what would be causing it, but I say find the problem and fix it

10-19-2017 05:52 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
But it still doesn't explain the problem as it is not rerolled... *sigh*
It actually seems like it *is* getting rerolled. Playing with a young orcish beastfighter and using the same attributes with replay last selection (L), my starting age class actually varied. When I started young I got 2 talents, when I started adult I only got 1 (as attributes had been adjusted with the adult modifiers).

10-24-2017 09:56 PM
Senior Member
There seems to be a difference between generating a character in "classic (roguelike) mode" and "personalized mode". In personalized mode, starting stats are correct (with the exception of rerolling age on play last selection). In classic mode, starting stats are almost always wrong.

10-24-2017 10:49 PM
Junior Member
i think when you press "play last selection" it should keep the age of your last selection

and yes using personalized mode I have never had a problem before I do no think. I think personalized mode works perfectly

10-27-2017 03:48 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grond
There seems to be a difference between generating a character in "classic (roguelike) mode" and "personalized mode". In personalized mode, starting stats are correct (with the exception of rerolling age on play last selection). In classic mode, starting stats are almost always wrong.
This. I've been using point-based character creation a lot recently, and the end results vary by 4 points for every stat. The overall amount of stat points can be as much as 15 points higher than what is specified on the point allocation screen. I don't mind it too much, but sometimes this makes the starting stats absurdly good (e.g. rolling +3 to an already maxed-out Le or To with a total of ~145 points, that's quite insane in early game). Creating characters by point allocation probably shouldn't outperform random allocation by the sum of points... I mean there should be a price for precise control, and right now it's completely free.

11-09-2017 12:48 AM
Junior Member
http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=5623

her is my post but funny enough not only do i only sometimes have the issue with the same sign, class, gender, and race picked sometimes it actually works and i get the full Talent amount it says. Something is changing in the process before picking talents. That change is affecting stats, I believe, since i sometimes got the one for mana, and stat/7, sometimes just for mana, or sometimes just for stats. However i am missing both bonus talents more often then getting just one, and only both one out of 5 attempts so far.

sign(any non talent one) i used raven or cup mostly, ratling, female (to be able to get 18 mana), and archer

I wonder if the signs attribute gains have something to do with it?

edit note

SO REPEATED OVER 12 TIMES found something out, the stats are changing once the game is set to play, you then get to pick talents, however your stats have changed, and some only got 2 talents since mana stayed above 18 but sometimes it gets lowered, and since all stats change your Divisible by 7 total also changes

I had one rule on all these tests SAME OF ALL THINGS IF POSSIBLE WHICH INCLUDES SPENDING ALL POINTS IN POINT BUY.

So same sign, race, class, gender, and mana 18 but spend all points.

somewhere after point total the stats are changing, and my guess is, BACKGROUND STORY. since not all of them are the same only one part matches one or two of the dozen i made.

11-13-2017 09:06 AM
The Creator
Fixed.

11-16-2017 02:59 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
Fixed.
Is the fix up on Steam? I noticed this a day or two ago (I finally bought the game, and I'm enjoying/getting used to all of the quality of life changes from the free version I was using), and I'm still having the issue tonight.

Here's an imgur album with the stat selection screen, the background screen, and the talent selection screen. Please excuse the orange tint; I forgot that I had f.lux turned on.

Thanks!

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