[RFE] Whips should be better
issueid=3338 10-05-2014 07:51 PM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by Small Bombs: 3
[RFE] Whips should be better
When's the last anyone seriously used a whip as main weapon?

We need either a guaranteed artifact whip somewhere hard to reach, or powerful and somewhat reliably findable new type(s) for regular use. As it is, whips might as well not even exist in the game. Sure, whip of the snake/slaughter aren't completely useless but its randomness and the existence of so much better weapon options means no one ever thinks of using whips.

Better new whips would mean the chance of stumbling into a powerful weapon and starting to use it. Guaranteed artifact whip means you can have a plan of being a whip fighter from start. Random artifact whip would mean neither and wouldn't be all that much of an incentive to say I'm totally gonna play a whip dude this game.
Issue Details
Issue Number 3338
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 9
Suggested Version ADOM r51
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 15
Votes against this feature 1
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




10-06-2014 08:46 AM
Member
To answer your question: I use whips every time when I'm playing a char who is dextrous enough, excluding beastfighters. My recent archer was dual-wielding whips of the snake, started using whips as soon as the first goblin slavemaster was killed and dropped a regular whip. My both winning duelists wielded whips.

But I still agree, ADOM really needs better whips (whips with eternium at the end of the lashes so you can fight oozes without the whip corroding) and an artifact whip, that artifact whip preferably being a crowning gift for duelists.

10-07-2014 10:49 PM
Ancient Member
I also use them often, but for style and RPGing reasons. For gameplay reasons I wouldn't ever use them. We need better whips.

10-11-2014 05:04 PM
Senior Member
Better whips would be very nice indeed.

For gameplay reasons I could imagine you use whips as mist elven archer (just generated one using whips); with so little strength and so much dexterity it's basically the best weapon for the start.

10-13-2014 03:31 AM
Ancient Member
Whips of the snake and whips of slaughtering also have among the highest DL of any item (30 and 25), which, combined with already low rarity, means that they're pretty much impossible to find without a wish.

10-18-2014 10:12 PM
Senior Member
I hate to be the odd one out here, but, while I dislike the fact that spears are so stupidly far ahead of other weapons in ADOM, I quite like how bad whips are. I think they're in the right place.

If we buff whips, what's next, buffing use of cloaks in melee for 'balance'? How about wielding wooden sticks? Should that be more powerful? Wielding musical instruments?
I'm all for a fantasy setting and stuff, but there's a reason whips tend to be so bad in most roleplaying systems - a whip, despite what films might have us believe, isn't actually a weapon. It's never been a weapon historically. It's an animal training tool. At no point in history has a whip been a combat weapon, and I quite like the way ADOM makes their use possible, but not really practical outside of style-seeking. I think that's the right place for them, and getting powerful whips or buffs to the bonuses destroys realism.

10-19-2014 08:45 PM
Ancient Member
For combat to be realistic, first of all it probably shouldn't be possible to use bows, let alone crossbows, inside dungeons. Anyone wielding full plate armor should be invulnerable to swords, daggers, axes and whips, and only slightly vulnerable to thrown rocks and blunt weapons. The only weapons (pre-gunpowder) that were effective against plate armor were polearms (would be even more OP!), crossbows and longbows (but not in closed places like dungeons). Wielding a weapon and a bow at the same time should of course be impossible.

Realism isn't a good idea, at least in the context of ADOM.

10-20-2014 03:52 PM
Senior Member
I'm not asking for realism though. I'm asking for us not to get so far off-course that we lose all contextual plausability. I'm fine with monsters being in the game, I just have a hard time believing that an adventurer can whip them to death - the idea it conjures in my head is ridiculous! I can't think of a quicker way of getting eaten!

10-20-2014 04:51 PM
Junior Member
How about some boost to whips (there are no decent ones in the game) and then make a whip-wielding PC be able to command tame animals with 100 % probability, as long as they are within LoS?

10-20-2014 06:36 PM
Senior Member
Taming animals with whips is something that makes a lot more sense than making them combat weapons.

10-21-2014 09:27 AM
Ancient Member
I like the way whips are implemented right now and will often use them in the early game with high-Dx low-St characters. Especially since the hard potentials were implemented and you cannot simply walk around Strained! until your strength is at 18.
In rare occasions I'll stick to whips later on, but usually that means I have found a whip of devastation or I like (and can afford) the style of a flaming whip. By the time frail characters have built up their strength and higher metal or artifact weapons are found, it's usually wise to switch and I think that's fine.
Nevertheless I always wished there was an artifact whip and I'd still really like to see it. There have been many cool suggestions in the respective thread.
As far as realism goes, I think some here are a bit harsh. Although whips might not have played an important role as a weapon in history, and I agree that their usefulness to Indiana Jones/Zorro/Wonderwoman etc. is of course highly exaggerated, there are chain whips and rope darts in chinese martial arts, which had their uses as weapons that could be easily concealed and if mastered their effectiveness at keeping opponents at a distance were frightening. This is accounted for in ADOM by the high DV modifier and relatively low damage.

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