Allow wishing for Healing skill
issueid=4491 09-27-2016 12:45 PM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by _Ln_: 97
Allow wishing for Healing skill

I'm going off Thomas' suggestion in the thread below.

http://www.adom.de/forums/project.ph...1513#note29850

Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
This always has been intentional as I wanted these two skills to be very rare and also increase the value of the quests giving the healing skill and the value of the race/class combinations getting these skills (particularly for Alertness). I have added a special message to indicate that this behavior is intentional and thus consider the "bug" to be fixed. If you really dislike the behavior and oppose me please submit a feature request and gather votes ;-)
While I reserve my judgement concerning Alertness, disallowing Healing skill on the grounds of it being rare makes no sense. You can wish for multiple items granting regeneration, any of which is about 10x times as good as Healing.

Early game wishes for regen items are the superior choice. In the late game wishing for Healing is pretty pointless gameplay-wise - PCs have huge HP pools and wishing for regen items is once again a superior choice.

Thus we might conclude that wishing for Healing is simply a matter of minor game satisfaction some person wants to achieve. Why not indulge such people?
Issue Details
Issue Number 4491
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 10 - Lowest
Suggested Version ADOM r71 (v2.2.5)
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 11
Votes against this feature 7
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




09-27-2016 04:52 PM
Junior Member
I just think some skills are more special than others. Like you said, +Rgen items are much more desired to wish for. So why would anyone ever wish for Healing? :-)

(Yes, I understand that sometimes someone might want to. But it's not IMHO a good enough reason to change this deliberate rule.)

09-27-2016 06:18 PM
Ancient Member
I actually never found healing remotely essential, contrary to popular opinion. Must be something to do with my playstyle. So it wouldn't seem unbalanced to me if it were a wishable skill. I covet alertness much more though--although there are a few other skills almost on par with it that are sometimes worth a wish.

09-27-2016 06:22 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
I'm with The Creator. I don't think that PC should be able to wish for really anything. Skills in ADOM is the one thing that makes r/c combos really different. I'd rather extend list to include other crucial skills: concentration (instead increase max PP, restore them all show all secrets in LoS), cooking (get all your food cooked), did weakness (not really sure, since I'm playing ADOM a long time I'm not against even punishment to PC's St), detect item status (act a blessed scroll of identify), food preservation (bless all perishable food).

My view, if you got a wish (which is happening in the most of my games at least once), spend them on anything. But not on making your r/c combo similar to others.

09-27-2016 06:48 PM
Ancient Member
I believe there are more significant skills than alertness and healing, when you consider TB's justification.
I wholly agree with Ln about the healing skill. If I were to get a wish in the early stage of the game, I'd rather wish for gardening or herbalism than healing.
In the long term, the latter provides fewer benefits simply because herbs can be used on demand to restore large amounts of HP and you gain a source of toughness, willpower and dexterity training.
If I really needed regeneration, healing would once again be my secondary choice because of the clear superiority of items granting regeneration.

As for alertness, I guess I can agree with TB to some extent.
It is a nice and useful skill but after a number of games without it, my conclusion is similar to that regarding healing:
If I had a wish in the early-mid game, there are much better choices than alertness.
Furthermore, in the later game it doesn't really matter anymore, since HP pool covers you in this department.

The only place where alertness has a potentially game-changing effect is the ToEF.
PCs there often are under-equipped and having the wyrm miss you several times due to successful spell evasion granted by alertness, might just give you enough time to put it down.
This however assumes that the skill is developed, to somewhere around 80+.
That is very often not the case with wished-for alertness, simply because it levels up so poorly.

When you consider the above, healing and alertness aren't really out of the line when compared to other skills, especially when you factor in the frequently low starting dice that almost do not improve as the game progresses.
This difficulty in training further stunts the usefulness of these skills when wished for.

Hence, I vote to have both healing and alertness available via wishing.

09-27-2016 09:05 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by ixi
I'm with The Creator. I don't think that PC should be able to wish for really anything. Skills in ADOM is the one thing that makes r/c combos really different. I'd rather extend list to include other crucial skills: concentration (instead increase max PP, restore them all show all secrets in LoS), cooking (get all your food cooked), did weakness (not really sure, since I'm playing ADOM a long time I'm not against even punishment to PC's St), detect item status (act a blessed scroll of identify), food preservation (bless all perishable food).

My view, if you got a wish (which is happening in the most of my games at least once), spend them on anything. But not on making your r/c combo similar to others.
I thought about this after his post on the previous RFE. In fact, I have come to terms that I some skills being unwishable would be a reasonable system. Including some you have mentioned (Concentration, Find Weakness, Food Preservation). And for the exact same reason you have mentioned -- distinguishing races more and more.

However, this RFE is only about Healing which I find in a weird spot.

1) You can get it from Jharod and wish for Herbalism, but not vice versa, whereas I don't see why exactly Thomas wants the Jharod quest to be more special than the Keethrax quest. They are in my mind equally interesting and provide entirely different benefits to keep each other on the same level.
2) As I said before, it offers quite nothing in the long run as it is easily interchangeable with some items. Most of the skills you have mentioned are more unique and deserve to be unwishable more.
3) No races start with the skill so race balance will not be compromised if it's made wishable.

09-27-2016 10:33 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Agree with you Ln. I learned to play my Necromancers and Mindcrafters with. But several years since I started playing ADOM I hardy could survive even early game with no healing. It's the most obvious straightforward way of getting back your HP. You have to play the game a while until you discover tons of the other ways it offers. I guess that's why TB have chosen exactly healing rather than anything else.
Anyways, by the time you learn to play without healing at all you wouldn't need to waste a wish for it in any case...

09-27-2016 11:55 PM
Ancient Member
I could go either way on Alertness, but I 100% agree that Healing should be wishable. Wishing for rings of regeneration is a way better wish than Healing, for instance, so I see it in no way overpowered.

09-28-2016 01:59 PM
Senior Member
I'm certainly OK with designating certain skills as unusual and special enough that you have to be the correct race/class to get them.

However, Healing specifically doesn't reach that standard. A great many classes have it, any PC can easily obtain it in the early game at negligible cost (the opportunity to learn Herbalism instead, which *is* wishable), and it is sufficiently commonplace and mundane in Nature that I think it should be possible to learn it.

Personally, I don't think I would ever spend a wish on it, but it might be a very satisfying result for new players.

As an aside, what would be very disappointing and dissatisfying for new players is to wish for healing, intending the skill, and get HP restored; or else wish hoping for HP, and get the skill instead. Therefore I suggest that in the interest of making the game pleasurable for newbies too, a wish for "healing" should just give both: you learn/advance the skill and get restored to full HP. Why not?

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