Make the Scroll of Information in the SMC Dynamic
issueid=4479 09-24-2016 01:38 PM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by Dogbreath: 74
Make the Scroll of Information in the SMC Dynamic

Currently, when you enter the Small Cave dungeon, there's a scroll of information on the steps that tells you how many steps you are away (using the quickest walking route) to to the waterproof blanket.

The problem is, this isn't of much use to new players, and veterans already know just to try and find the the furthermost room from the entrance to find the blanket.

What if this was changed so that the distance to the blanket was recalculated every time you read the scroll of information. I.e, when you first read it "98 paces away your goal is lying" - take a step, read "97 paces away your goal is lying"... that would actually make more sense, and actually make the scroll useful. Plus it'd be kind of neat. :)

Once you pick up the blanket the scroll could disappear in a puff of light or something.
Issue Details
Issue Number 4479
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 10 - Lowest
Suggested Version ADOM r71 (v2.2.5)
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 9
Votes against this feature 2
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




09-24-2016 09:58 PM
Ancient Member
Good idea, I was actually wondering why it didn't work like that to begin with.

08-09-2017 08:08 PM
Senior Member
Giving this one my yearly bump a bit early, since I think it works as a nice anti-frustration feature for new players and that seems to be the focus of this upcoming release.

08-09-2017 08:24 PM
Senior Member
Wow, still a lot of good ideas buried that i overlooked. Like blasphemous I had the same thought about the scroll (maybe it's even supposed to work that way but bugged/unfinished?)., but it's one of those odd occasions where the thought of making an RFE never popped into my brain. Even if not a newbie if you're trying to get the blanket ASAP it can help avoid taking false turns on the map.

08-09-2017 09:28 PM
Senior Member
There have been a number of issues in ADOM where an RFE was submitted to improve a certain behavior only for Thomas to fix it and say "yeah, this was actually a bug - it was actually supposed to work differently." I think there's a strong chance that this is one of those cases, where this has actually been broken for the past 20 years or so and people just thought it is working as intended. :P

08-10-2017 08:36 AM
The Creator
No, it works as I originally intended it. Because calculating the dynamic distance requires some special handling:
- Each reading will require looking through all items on the map to find "the" blanket.
- What to do if there are two or more blankets (I didn't like the idea of introducing a special marker for "the" blanket)?

I'll do it at some point but it's one of those "improvements" where I personally do find the cost/benefit ratio not very tempting.

08-10-2017 11:22 AM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
It must be. SMC is quite popular dungeon to visit in the very begining of the game and newbies must be choosing it from time to time. Having static info causes frustration and leaves vague impression about the game since it looks unfinished.

08-10-2017 05:01 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
- Each reading will require looking through all items on the map to find "the" blanket.
That does sound computationally expensive, but why can't the scroll object (and every other item) store its own x,y coordinates and then you just maintain a pointer to the scroll?

08-10-2017 05:18 PM
Senior Member
What's an object? ;)

08-10-2017 05:55 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Dogbreath
What's an object? ;)
Are you making a comment about it not being OO code? It's all illusory anyway, the CPU doesn't know what an object or a data structure is. Humans do.

08-10-2017 06:13 PM
Senior Member
Making a joke about C. :) (I spent a few months earlier this year working on a project with some ancient C code, it's given me a lot of sympathy for whenever TB talks about the difficulties of implementing certain things in ADOM)

Anyway, there might be an "item" struct or something, but I've gotten the impression (from various item duplication bugs and exploits as well as weird shopkeeper behavior, etc.) that items are part of the dungeon tile they're on or the inventory they are in, and don't really exist independent of some other context. That, and TB has a PhD in Computer Science and has been working on this game for 20+ years, I'm sure if there were x,y coordinates directly associated with items (like a "blanket" struct you can reference with a pointer that has x and y ints) he would have probably thought of it. :)

08-10-2017 06:22 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Dogbreath
Making a joke about C. :) (I spent a few months earlier this year working on a project with some ancient C code, it's given me a lot of sympathy for whenever TB talks about the difficulties of implementing certain things in ADOM)

Anyway, there might be an "item" struct or something, but I've gotten the impression (from various item duplication bugs and exploits as well as weird shopkeeper behavior, etc.) that items are part of the dungeon tile they're on or the inventory they are in, and don't really exist independent of some other context. That, and TB has a PhD in Computer Science and has been working on this game for 20+ years, I'm sure if there were x,y coordinates directly associated with items (like a "blanket" struct you can reference with a pointer that has x and y ints) he would have probably thought of it. :)
I think so too. Was just wondering what part of the picture I'm missing.

08-10-2017 06:33 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by auricbond
That does sound computationally expensive, but why can't the scroll object (and every other item) store its own x,y coordinates and then you just maintain a pointer to the scroll?
You can't know how hard this would be without having even seen the code. Speculating is pretty pointless, if the Creator says it's hard, there isn't really a reason to doubt his word. And it really would be a shame if valuable time would be spent on things like this, when we're waiting for super exciting stuff, like Rolf and the Volcano.

08-10-2017 06:46 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by grobblewobble
You can't know how hard this would be without having even seen the code. Speculating is pretty pointless, if the Creator says it's hard, there isn't really a reason to doubt his word. And it really would be a shame if valuable time would be spent on things like this, when we're waiting for super exciting stuff, like Rolf and the Volcano.
I wasn't doubting his word. Think I already explained why I was asking.

08-10-2017 09:39 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Nevermind

08-10-2017 10:14 PM
The Creator
Quote Originally Posted by ixi
Are you serious? Well, the algorythm is called "breadth-first search"...
LOL, you should try to put some care into reading my comments instead of lecturing me. I learned about BFS about 25 years ago. I have programmed it dozens of times and I know it pretty well (and it's "algorithm" BTW... no "y" there).

The final sentence in my last comment said: "I don't think this has a good cost/benefit ratio".

First of all it's pretty funny to think of all scrolls in ADOM as magical scrolls. Has the idea ever crossed your mind that you simply found a plain paper scroll with static text on that damn stairway? That would explain why it isn't a magical compass. Someone used bloody plain ink on bloody plain parchment to leave a message.

Second I _never_ talked about efficiency of the algorithm. This kind of stuff (for the given size of ADOMs levels) is so blazingly fast that you probably could run it a thousand times and wouldn't notice on the UI level.

Third your explanations totally miss the point... algorithmically this is not very complicated. The complications are on the logical side:
  • I probably would have to special mark _the_ blanket to not confuse it with other blankets.
  • I probably might confuse players if there ever happen to be two blankets on the level as the constantly changing distance might go up and down with two blankets in wildly irregular matter.

It's bad enough that I by now probably have already wasted 15 minutes on this instead of programming fun features.

08-10-2017 10:16 PM
The Creator
I hereby declare the scroll to be a non-magical scroll. RFE rejected.

08-10-2017 10:35 PM
Senior Member
Aw. :/

ixi: I don't know if my point to auricbond wasn't clear enough, but pretty much anyone who's ever been in an undergrad Computer Science course knows about and has written a BFS. Do you not see how condescending it is to lecture someone with a PhD in the field who is literally a CEO of a tech company on how to implement an elementary algorithm?

Well anyway, it cost me a cool RFE, so thanks...

08-10-2017 10:48 PM
The Creator
@Dogbreath: Maybe I calm down tomorrow and reopen it :-/

08-10-2017 11:03 PM
The Creator
Ah, damn, let's talk about it again once we have the next stable Steam release finished.

08-10-2017 11:19 PM
Senior Member
Sounds good to me. :)

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