Chaos Knight - Removes too much content without adding enough to be fun (spoilers)
issueid=1883 01-29-2013 11:42 AM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by Citronvand: 6
Chaos Knight - Removes too much content without adding enough to be fun (spoilers)
Make Chaos Knight have roughly the same amount of content as the other classes

I initially hoped for a fun and unique experience when I started my Chaos Knight, especially since I just finished the game with a L+ character, but all I got was punishment and "can't do that" without anything really new. I think the Chaos Knight removes too much content out of the game without adding enough to make the class fun.

Want to do most quests in ADOM such as Dwarftown and Terinyo but also others for example the Weird Tome? Can't do that, you need to be neutral for that. There is also quests you cannot do even when neutral such as the Sheriff quests.
Want to get the Healing skill? Can't do that, you need to be neutral for that. Yes, even to kill Jharod.
Want to get food from the ratling traders? Can't do that, you need to be neutral.
Want to be neutral? Can't do that, you need fire resistance and a LOT of tedious sacrifices.
Want to use your class powers? Can't do that, you need to be chaotic for that.
Want to train your attributes by spending gold? (Garth) Can't do that, AT ALL.

I think it is also important to note that you're not really playing a Chaos Knight if you're not chaotic: First of all you're not evil which is kind of the point with the class, secondly you lose all your class powers which is like playing no class at all.
It is also common to keep re-rolling until you don't get horrible corruptions at the start: such as unholy aura, stiff muscles and Teleportation. Which is just another thing to add to the Not-fun-pile.

It's fine to make exclusive content for certain classes and races but everyone should have roughly the same amount of content. It doesn't need to be the same content, just the same amount of content, roughly. The game already has this to some extent, you can choose to help the sheriff or to kill him. You can choose to help the healer or to kill him. That's good, it makes repeating playthroughs different and fun.

You might say that Chaos Knights are suppose to be a hard class to play. Maybe. I don't have a problem with challenging races/classes but I MUCH rather play as a hurthling merchant than a chaos knight if I want a challenge since I can fully embrace the merchant class without missing half the game. I was going for Ultra Chaos God Ending with my Chaos Knight, everything was going fine, first kill farmer, pre-crown done, dwarf-shop sells a AoLS. Going pretty good, except one thing. It was not fun. So I'm not going to continue. I rather play my Ratling Fencer which I just love, THAT class is a unique and fun experience. No shields, only one-handed weapon, Massive focus on weapon skills but perhaps the most important: Still the same amount of content.



So there is a lot of solutions for this: You could have alternative quests and NPCs which let's you embrace the Chaos Knight class but still makes you feel like you didn't miss half the game. You can lessen the severe penalties for alignment shifts. You can let the Chaos Knight talk to more people. I don't know the best solution, I'd think I prefer alternative quests/NPCs, but I do know that the Chaos Knight needs roughly the same amount of content as the other classes. If this is the same old content or new content, I do not know, either is fine by me.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1883
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category Windows 7
Status Suggested
Priority 2
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 10
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 11
Votes against this feature 4
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




01-30-2013 03:36 PM
Ancient Member
Nothing. Literally nothing has changed about strength at all. (actually, perhaps corpses won't train you past your max potential; I wouldn't be surprised if that were true, but I consider that a bug. other than that there are no possible changes)

edit: well I guess starvation and sickness training probably don't work, but really it's not a big deal.

01-30-2013 04:16 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Citronvand
I'd say that's a flaw then. It makes the whole "Max Potential" system useless in this case since practically I'm already at my max potential. It doesn't matter if I need it or not to finish the game, I don't need 7LB to finish the game either but I sure love to have them. What happened to the ability to naturally train your attributes to your max potential and then be forced to use magical means to train it even further?
That system never existed in reality. Potentials had no meaning in ADOM prior to 1.2.0preX. Any training method that could train the stat could also train the potential. That is no longer the case generally. Not all methods allow you to train your stat up to your potential, but there are some methods that do, though generally, the higher your stat is, the harder it will be to increase it.

@SirTheta, AFAIK, most corpses cannot increase your potential. I have not tested, but suspect that certain types of corpses that give training rather than a direct increase (eg. swamp hydras) may still be able to train potentials.

01-30-2013 04:21 PM
Junior Member
Except that CK doesn't have a way to train Strength naturally. As far as I know the only way to train strength naturally if you have it over 18 is to give Garth money. I don't think corpses count as "naturally training" since it gives you a Strength point the moment you eat it.

01-30-2013 05:22 PM
Ancient Member
@JS: I assume you mean past your potential? That is my assumption from eating undead corpses, anyway. I assume the same would hold true of Strength as it does of Toughness.

02-01-2013 01:13 AM
Senior Member
+1 for chaotic quest path.
Or at least i want to be able to get kill Jharod quest without having to go neutral and talking to elder.
Would be fun to have chaotic quest to get literature too.

02-04-2013 12:46 PM
Member
I find Chaos Knights plenty of fun to play, but for one thing: It's almost obligatory to convert to neutral at some point, which is bad from a role-playing angle (I also hate the necessary Chaotic conversion for lawful and neutral ultra endings, it just doesn't make sense). Being illiterate is a bore and I wish there were at least some other way to bypass the Eternal Guardian peacefully for Chaos Knights.

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