Add Female Shopkeepers
issueid=4862 07-21-2017 05:04 PM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by Wigdaddy: 12
Add Female Shopkeepers
Shopkeeper sexism as implemented doesn't make sense, but giving shopkeepers a gender would solve.

I know that I'm inviting plenty of "why does this matter" comments by raising yet another gender issue, but the fact remains that many people of both sexes actually play this game, so I think this should at least be addressed.

The current system has shopkeepers adjusting their prices for males based on Charisma, and for females based on Appearance. While some specific shopkeepers would certainly be prejudiced like this, the idea that a 7,500-year-old Mist Elf Shopkeeper and a 16-year-old Troll Shopkeeper would be sexist in the exact same way seems a bit absurd.

I'm certain it was not in any way the intent, but this universal response has the effect of making the game mechanics themselves appear sexist. It creates a direct statement that men succeed in commerce by virtue of their ability to be outgoing and friendly, and women only if they're lucky enough to be beautiful.

After consideration of multiple options and some input from the community, I believe the best solution would be to introduce *female* shopkeepers to the game — going out on a limb here, I know. :) Let them have the opposite prejudices that the current all-male ones have, maybe with a bit of variation to that prejudice based on culture (i.e., Gray Elves might be less sexist than Orcs) and/or random factors to reflect individuality — shopkeepers do tend to have a bit more personality than most other creatures in the game, after all.
Issue Details
Issue Number 4862
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 3
Suggested Version ADOM r70 (v2.2.4)
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 5
Votes against this feature 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




07-21-2017 06:02 PM
Ancient Member
Charisma does not represent wit. In ADOM it's described as how outgoing and friendly you are.

The attributes actually use different mechanics. For females, current appearance is used to adjust shop prices. For males, charisma at the time the shop is generated sets the initial price level - this is the same price level that is adjusted by haggling. Females therefore have a greater potential to get lower prices, since a high haggling score will give them as much benefit as a male's high charisma score.

In terms of gameplay, I don't think reducing the distinction between male and female characters is a good thing, as it makes the choice of gender less interesting.

07-21-2017 06:19 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grond
Charisma does not represent wit. In ADOM it's described as how outgoing and friendly you are.
Agreed. Thanks, Grond. I'll adjust the RFE description appropriately.

Quote Originally Posted by Grond
The attributes actually use different mechanics. For females, current appearance is used to adjust shop prices. For males, charisma at the time the shop is generated sets the initial price level - this is the same price level that is adjusted by haggling. Females therefore have a greater potential to get lower prices, since a high haggling score will give them as much benefit as a male's high charisma score.
Thanks for the breakdown of the mechanics. It does sound like they still have the same basic problem.

Quote Originally Posted by Grond
In terms of gameplay, I don't think reducing the distinction between male and female characters is a good thing, as it makes the choice of gender less interesting.
Excellent point. So would you go for the second option I outlined above, then, or do you have a different solution to propose?

07-21-2017 06:52 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Wigdaddy
Excellent point. So would you go for the second option I outlined above, then, or do you have a different solution to propose?
Having female shopkeepers would be a good idea in general (you can have female adventurers and monsters, so why not?). You would also maintain most of the gender distinction, since the four fixed-name shopkeepers are all male.

07-22-2017 02:41 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
I concur. I long for female shopkeeprs since long ago (as well as more named female NPCs in general).

On the other hand, as it was already pointed, making males and females more similar isn't a good idea since it makes choice less significant. Dunno if community accepts that but I'd rather add more (slight) variation in starting attributes and skill, heck probably would even want a quest which have different variations for males and females.

07-23-2017 04:17 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by ixi
I concur. I long for female shopkeeprs since long ago (as well as more named female NPCs in general).

On the other hand, as it was already pointed, making males and females more similar isn't a good idea since it makes choice less significant. Dunno if community accepts that but I'd rather add more (slight) variation in starting attributes and skill, heck probably would even want a quest which have different variations for males and females.
I agree with you, ixi. You and Grond have convinced me that Option 2 is the best one to go with. I'm modifying the RFE to go with that suggestion. Thanks for the input!

07-23-2017 09:05 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grond
Charisma does not represent wit. In ADOM it's described as how outgoing and friendly you are.
The clue is in the word. Charisma means you're charming. A charm is a spell. It represents your ability to make people fall under your leadership. Hence its function in commanding companions.

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