Reducing the frustration caused by rivers
issueid=1648 01-05-2013 11:46 AM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by quik: 20
Reducing the frustration caused by rivers
Give characters more resources to deal with rivers in the early game. In particular, revamping bridge building.

It is very frustrating when you get to the CoC at level 6 or 7, find a river in the earlier levels and have no available means to cross it. At this point you feel forced to scum for some item that allows crossing, which is not an easy task. These items can be a wand of teleport, a wand of trap creation, water breathing gear, a wand of cold or potions of carrot juice in order to learn swimming.

None of the alternatives is very appealing. The items are difficult to get and swimming is learned at very low skill, not to speak about the item destruction and rusting.

Therefore, I think it's necessary to give new possibilities to characters in the early game. The idea that comes to my mind is revamping bridge building. If bridge building could work, let's say, without needing trees it could be more useful. Perhaps making wooden sticks more frequent in the dungeons and being able to use them with bridge building could work.

Other possible solutions I thought (but I don't like them that much) are being able to pray to your god in order to cross the river and remove the rivers completely in the early levels of the CoC.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1648
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 6
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 8
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 9
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 4
Votes against this feature 9
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




01-06-2013 10:38 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
It's a randomly generated item, you could find it anywhere - it's not "mandatory". The game's already throwing you a bone by even including a guaranteed location for it and nudging you towards it with the ominous scrolls in one of the closest available early game dungeons.
I thought the whole point of the issue was about making rivers at _early_ game better crossable without excessive grinding on ID. You can find blankets everywhere, but in the early game there's good chance one hasn't been generated yet.

Same goes for pickaxes too: they are good alternative later on, but most of the time PC:s won't have spare pickaxe on the early game.

01-06-2013 10:43 AM
Ancient Member
Making bridge building work with wooden sticks would be good, as they're more easily available in dungeons.

And praying to part the water is a cool idea :-)

01-06-2013 03:13 PM
Ancient Member
A river on Coc 6 or 7 isn't an early game river - at most I would understand complaints about rivers in the VD or DD. If you can't pass the river there are many other places to go. It's simply an obstacle that you have to figure out how to deal with. I wanted to illustrate there are quite a number of ways to do so; chances are good you've found or looking for one won't take long - and if you really can't handle that bit of work, you should probably just start with the Swimming skill. The point is that rivers need to potentially be a meaningful obstacle or you might as well not have them at all. That Bridge Building needs a rework to be one of the workable options - as intended - is true regardless.

01-06-2013 05:48 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
A river on Coc 6 or 7 isn't an early game river - at most I would understand complaints about rivers in the VD or DD.
Well, if I find a river that gives me trouble that early I still can go berserker and try to cross it... If I die, no problem, just re-roll, no big time invested. In the early CoC, however, I already have invested some time on the character... Re-rolling at this point kills the fun and so does scumming for a solution. Of course this doesn't happen very often and of course probably a better player than me may have more resources and solve the situation better...

In the end, my point is that there are not so many resources to cross rivers, and some of them are not very obvious for new players (e.g. wands of trap creation). Providing some other options may enrich the game in this area.

01-06-2013 06:42 PM
Pim Pim is offline
Member
A while back, I started a game in which it rained non-stop for the first three weeks. Then the clouds broke for two days, and then it rained for another week. The waterproof blanket in the SMC was inaccessible, so I spent most of my time meandering about in either the Village Dungeon or the Puppy Cave waiting for the rain to stop. Sometimes I had to stash all my scrolls and the one or two books I'd collected, and all my metal stuff, and make a dash through the rain back to Munxip's shop for more food.

I kept one or two iron items on my person and tried to discover if standing underneath a tree protected me from rain. Also tried to discover if being inside one of the buildings in Terinyo meant I was under a roof and protected from rain. I didn't get any conclusive data.

At some point I did get a hooded cloak, and before I left the dungeon in which I'd found it, it got destroyed by a fireball trap.

"If it'll be funny later, it's funny now." <-- this saying has helped me learn to cry less, and laugh more. And so has ADOM!

01-06-2013 07:57 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Pim
A while back, I started a game in which it rained non-stop for the first three weeks. Then the clouds broke for two days, and then it rained for another week.
I think that's more rain than I've seen in my entire ADOM experience.

01-07-2013 04:15 AM
Member
Quote Originally Posted by Laukku
A suggestion I made once was that river width would depend on dungeon depth, wider in deeper levels and vice versa (the in-universe justification being that the water would've gone to the lower rivers during millennia). Narrow rivers would be obviously much easier to cross and so suitable for early levels.
This is my favorite solution so far! I mean obviously bridge-building needs to be touched up, but I think this sounds like the most fun. I think it would be really fun to hit a really wide river in a high danger-level area. This is a problem the PC never really encounters.

01-07-2013 08:22 AM
Ancient Member
The Survival skill is usefull only in the wilderness. So, I'm thinking the original thoughts of the creator was that the PC would spend some time in the wilderness.
I do think bulding a bridge is a massive drag. It should be more succesfull. Carrot juice is not something any normal person will find more than the obvious use for.

01-07-2013 09:30 PM
Senior Member
(rm)

01-07-2013 09:52 PM
Member
Rivers are a little annoying, honestly, part of my early game is preparing to cross one if necessary when I reach the CoC.

01-07-2013 10:12 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Laukku
A suggestion I made once was that river width would depend on dungeon depth, wider in deeper levels and vice versa (the in-universe justification being that the water would've gone to the lower rivers during millennia). Narrow rivers would be obviously much easier to cross and so suitable for early levels.
That's an excellent and flavorful suggestion. I can't seem to find that RFE, though. Is it still around? Did it get rejected? If no to both, you should repost it as a new feature request.

01-08-2013 06:27 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Black Mantis
That's an excellent and flavorful suggestion. I can't seem to find that RFE, though. Is it still around? Did it get rejected? If no to both, you should repost it as a new feature request.
I believe I posted it in a forum thread and not a project issue...

EDIT: Found it.

01-09-2013 02:10 PM
The Creator
I have reduced the river width slightly for "early" rivers. Enough simplifying ;-)

01-09-2013 04:43 PM
Member
Better load up those scrolls in the missile slot and get to tossing!

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