From a logical standpoint it makes sense. From a gameplay standpoint... maybe too hardcore. This would make DF raids all but impossible until well into the late game. I like the current situation where they are no longer easy to pull off in the early game as before, but you can do them (with moderate risk) in the midgame.

I think the current behavior makes more sense. Kherab's creations cull the weak adventurers, while Kherab himself corrupts the strong with promises of power. It would be bizarre for him to get angry at you for filching the items he's using to lure you in.

Kherab: "I'd like you to kill the prominent foes of chaos. In exchange I'll give you powerful artifacts of dubious value."
Kherab: "What's that? You picked up that other powerful artifact of dubious value? What weak moral character! STOP THIEF!"

If you're looking to make darkforge worse, a more consistent way would be to make the other items more likely to be of dubious value: cursed, of vampirism, corrupting, chaotic, ashen, hateful, of damnation, of the void, vile, of anger, of hate, etc.

No, I was looking at it making sense. Not necessarily worse. It has always been very odd that he simply lets you take his belongings.

What made me create the RFE is the fact that teleportation control will in future be working when Kherab is dead. So this will also serve to teach unspoiled players this fact about the level and make it possible for Paragons of order to use it as a shortcut after they've killed him.

I don't believe it raises the difficulty by too much, you can still raid the place without fighting him at the same time in the game as you are doing it now. I also think it will actually make the raids even more exciting, not that they aren't exciting. This will add a little extra planning and cunning.

Another point on the making sense front: why wouldn't he get mad when you destroy his constructs? Surely these are more valuable than the bulk of his stores?

Well, when you talk to him he tells you something along the lines of how impressed he is in you managing to get to him. It's safe to say that the golems are a test to see who is strong and to not see the weak ones and also to protect his loot. He does want Guth'Alak and Thrundarr dead. So he wants to see potential murderers and not weaklings.

Maybe the items are in the stores to assist the strong ones in fulfilling his quests?

Maybe to lure unspoiled ones even better into his quests, he should not become hostile if you first speak to him and then take his loot. I think most unspoiled players will first speak to him unless they are maybe very unlucky with having intrinsic teleportation. Taking his loot without first speaking to him makes him hostile, thus also creating the possibility for paragons of order to get him hostile? Those that don't speak to him aren't interested in his quests and are only there to steal his loot.

The nerf to controlled teleportation was already enough. Items in the armor and weapon rooms aren't even guaranteed to be good, so no need to push it even more.

It doesn't really make sense. The whole point of darkforge is a trap. The steel golems are there to kill the weaklings and allow only the strong through, so that Kherab might corrupt them with promises of power and spread chaos. The current way darkforge is is fine.

I have never killed Kherab, never had a reason to. How many of you have?

So, what now. How do we inform unspoiled players that killing him lifts the teleportation non-control?

The same way we inform them there is ultra and that chaos gate can be passed rather than just closed - we DON'T inform them.
They either find this out on their own or they don't.

That seems a tad unfair that you and I now know of this because we are involved with development and not because we want to know it all, but we want the game to be even better.

e: One of the minstrel's songs is quite clear on what is needed to do for a ChAoS gOd ending. Unspoiled players are asked whether they want to enter the gate when they step on it, they are also told that the secret to godhood lies hidden in the chain, distortion leads to it and the various quests lead them to it.

Absolutely nothing leads you to killing Kherab.

I don't think that's true - it seems like a common sense thing to me. The "sinister force" is an extremely unusual mechanic only seen in one location. And what "sinister force" just happens to reside in that one location? The dwarven artificer, Kherab. The reason it was implemented this way (instead of the, imo, much superior idea [in terms of gameplay] of passing EG) is because it's sort of a natural conclusion.

Kherab is clearly chaotic, that's one. Most characters should kill him for that simple fact.
I only play L characters and usually kill him.
It is not necessary to kill him to complete the game, neither for ultra, nor normal.
Hence - no information about telelportation being enabled after he's dead.
You can still come and go as you wish, use the shortcut any time without killing him, I think that's enough.
There doesn't have to be any other guidance here.

Some MM song to explain about the shortcut (as well as Kherab and teleportation) would certainly be welcome.

I did it last week or so, on the championship server. He's very, very tough. My level 50 wizard wielding the AotME had to be careful to kill him without dying. That's why I say that this change would make DF raids available only in the very late game.

As for unspoiled players, DF gives a message about some force preventing you from controlling teleportation. I think it's rather logical to think that the force may come from the guy running the place, and that killing him can help. There is always the possibility of adding a minstrel song if needed.

Is he very fast and uses missiles or magic? Can he be disabled? If no and yes, then he can be evaded. Just saying, not promoting my original suggestion any further. Just trying to rate the difficulty such a change would have.

Kherab is not abnormally fast. He has lots of HP and PV and regenerates quickly, so you need to be able to deal truly colossal amounts of damage to be able to really harm him. In terms of strength, based on his stats his damage output is comparable to that of the cat lord or the eternal guardian--multiple attacks, punches through armor, fairly high damage. He can clobber most PCs in melee pretty handily.

He can't swim, so normally if you want to kill him and aren't obscenely high level, it's probably easiest to lure him to the pool room and hide on the opposite side of a stream, if it's available, and pummel him with missiles.

I've one-shotted him with a tremendous blow backstab. :)

But yeah, bad idea and I also agree with Grond that it wouldn't fit his character.

Funny, I think it's a brilliant idea. Shows you how crazy I am. I wonder why he is so tough though.