[RFE] Quicklings as a playable race and Liches as a playable class
issueid=1445 12-14-2012 08:00 AM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by Waladil: 7
[RFE] Quicklings as a playable race and Liches as a playable class

So this literally came to me in a dream. I don't believe dreams are psychic or anything, it just seems really cool.
In the dream, I let Fate decide my ADOM character... and came up with a Quickling Lich.

The description my "character" had mentioned a gem set in the center of his chest, that was imbued with power by <diety>, and then said he died at <age>.

So here's what I'm thinking:

Quicklings: PROS: High Speed. (200 by default?) CONS: Nearly everything else is average, below average, or low. In particular TO and LE, to make them challenging for any class. Possibly a poor skillset as well.

Liches: Would play nearly completely differently from any other class. Choosing this might well feel like a complete race/class combo by itself. Food and age would both be completely removed as factors, with the character perpetually the age they were at death. The character would not starve but also not eat at all, meaning he or she would get NO benefits from food, ever. Given the power of herbs this seems like it'd be more of a downside than upside. They can still drink potions, but the satiation changes are ignored.
My dream used the lore of liches that requires a phylactery, which means the player would be immortal unless that were destroyed. So that gem would have to roll every time the player is hit by an attack that could destroy a gem. And if the gem is destroyed the player instantly dies. Every melee hit should have a chance to kill the player outright, proportional to their health. At moderate/high levels the chance should be negligible (but nonzero). As the player reaches lower levels of health, the chance raises because the lich can't effectively protect it. After 0 HP, the lich does not die but instead starts to suffer attribute loss, primarily STR and DEX (also AP but that doesn't really matter in most cases) because the damage to the lich's body is becoming so great that parts simply stop working. However, any damaged tagged as "holy" (coming from a blessed source) that reduces the lich to 0 or less hp is fatal, and the lich is "banished by holy powers." And every hit would also be much more likely to destroy the phylactery. If the lich was wearing torso armor, I'd say that only "punches through your armor" hits have a chance to break the phylactery, because otherwise it's protected by armor.
Also, being undead would have one dire downside for the character: blessed armor or weaponry would deal damage to the player every turn it was wielded, and blessed consumables (scrolls and potions) deal damage when used.
I see them as being a bastardized combination of (Chaotic) priest, wizard, and necromancer. The description mentioned that a god imbued the phylactery with the power, not the character himself. Presumably this would be in exchange for serving that god for the duration of your unlife, hence the priest part. The wizard and necromancer should be pretty obvious.
The biggest upside should be massively inflated attributes, especially LE and MA. But all attributes should be really high.
Suggested class powers:
Level 6: Can unequip cursed items at will
Level 12: Aging strike. Any successful melee attack performed by a lich ages the target.
Level 18: Corpse storage. The lich can cast a spell that stores a corpse inside of a gem. This gem can later be 'U'sed to release an undead version of that corpse that obeys the lich. (Gem is destroyed. The only gems that can be used for this are precious, nonmagical stones. Topaz, opal, etc.)
Level 25: Can used uncursed potions/scrolls with blessed effectiveness
Level 32: Command Undead (forces target undead to become your slave. Costs PP and requires successful rolls. Upper-level undead: Very hard to control)
Level 40: +4 to all attributes
Level 50: Can remove specific corruptions at a permanent cost of -10 to an attribute
For XP gain, I'm toying with either very low (lich who's been around, not much more to learn), or very high (recently turned lich, now exploring the fantastic powers available to him/her)

I have to admit, playing a lich intrigues me far more than the quickling. Balance would be an issue, and most of this is whatever occurs to me now. Suggestions are welcome, and if The Creator decides to implement any of this, he's of course got final say.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1445
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category Windows 7
Status Rejected
Priority 9
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 7
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 5
Votes against this feature 5
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-14-2012 09:21 AM
Junior Member
Personally I've always wanted to play as a quickling. Meanwhile I quite like your outline of a Lich. Though it potentially seems overpowered.

Queries:

> Is Lich's level 12 power workable? Do ADOM monsters even have an age value?

> The Command Undead perk imo seems too crucial to the wider idea of a Lich to leave until Level 32. I'd suggest having it earlier, possibly at Level 18 in place of Corpse Storage. Additionally it seems weird that Liches can command corpses that come from gems, but not regular undead. By reanimating the dead that's possibly straying too close to the Necromancer class.

12-14-2012 09:49 AM
Junior Member
Liches would have Necromancy as a class skill. Therefore they could resurrect undead the normal way without class powers. The gem storage and command are intended to be supplements to that base ability. (I never really played ADOM necromancers, whether of the Necromancer class or just using the skill. So I don't know how all that works out.)
I agree that the current design is probably overpowered, but then again, liches are overpowered in lore. These are of course just ideas.

12-14-2012 10:33 AM
Ancient Member
You should play necromancers :-)

12-14-2012 11:11 AM
Ancient Member
In popular fantasy culture, lich is not a profession one chooses early in life, but a status reached by necromancers that have managed to perform certain rites (typically including death).

I think it wouldn't make much sense to offer liches as a starting class (especially when there are necromancers already), but it would be really great to have a quest for lichhood, which should be rather difficult and require some rare items. It should definitely be accessible by necromancers, and maybe also by chaotic wizards or maybe not.

Perhaps it could be a quest about killing a powerful lich (emperor lich?) that would be available to any character with some rewards... but if you're a necromancer, apart from getting the loot, you would be able to obtain whatever item or knowledge is needed to become a lich yourself.

12-14-2012 11:45 AM
Senior Member
It looks cool, but I don't think Thomas will find time for it.

12-14-2012 11:47 AM
Junior Member
In this case, I see it less as "choosing" and more as "being chosen." (Although you are correct that in most lore, liches are powerful wizards/necromancers who choose to go undead.) I pull this from the segment of dream (dreams, if nothing else, are great for writing new lore) where the lich's phylactery was placed there and enchanted by a god. So they might be better described as an anti-paladin. Take a normal, good guy paladin, and invert almost everything. Paladins like to melee? This dude's a wizard. Paladins are alive? This one's dead. Paladins choose to devote themselves to their god? This one's was chosen by his god (without permission). Etc. etc. and so forth.

An in-game quest to become a lich isn't really something I'd support. Mostly because it would have to be a difficult quest, followed by a large boost in power and a complete revamp of playstyle. After becoming a lich, I feel most players would then proceed to wipe the floor with Andor Drakon. Especially because they'd take the time to get all the training they can squeeze from herbs or easily farmed corpses. So the absolute lack of food would be only a benefit with no real downside.

EDIT: Oh, and from Facebook:
"Very briefly dreamt about ADOM last night. I rolled a random character... and found I was playing a Quickling Lich. PLEASE can this be implemented?
Thomas Biskup likes this.

Thomas Biskup: Post an RFE. Sounds as if there is a reat story in that for one of the new special levels
7 hours ago"

Not sure if he was referring to the lich-y-ness or the quickling-y-ness. But that does give hope he'll have some time, right?

12-14-2012 12:07 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Waladil
Not sure if he was referring to the lich-y-ness or the quickling-y-ness. But that does give hope he'll have some time, right?
If so, I'd really like to see such a thing.

Also, speaking of undead...
I thought of a vampisim.
Like, if you are bitten by a vampire (who already exist in ADOM), you have a chance to become a vampire yourself.
Or, maybe, a vampiric corruption...
An "eat" command is replaced then with "suck blood", which can be used on any non-undead, non-construct humanoid. It's chaotic no matter on who it's used, but if used in town, it makes it whole hostile. When you feed, there is a chance of failure, depending on your to-hit with bare hands and enemy DV. Sucking blood satiates you and causes effect similar to eating one's corpse, but not as poverful. Like, if you drink blood of ogre, you still have a chance to increate strength, but twice lower. It also deals damage to your enemy, but not very high.
Also, your satiation decreases much faster, but the time to die of starvation is increased greatly (you still suffer all penalties).
There can be also some stat rearrangements of being a vampire (penalty to Wi and Ch, bonuses to St and To).

12-27-2012 02:09 PM
Pim Pim is offline
Member
I like it, but am a little confused by the phylactery part:
My dream used the lore of liches that requires a phylactery, which means the player would be immortal unless that were destroyed. So that gem would have to roll every time the player is hit by an attack that could destroy a gem. And if the gem is destroyed the player instantly dies.
...so far so good, but then:
Every melee hit should have a chance to kill the player outright, proportional to their health. At moderate/high levels the chance should be negligible (but nonzero). As the player reaches lower levels of health, the chance rises because the lich can't effectively protect it.
This doesn't make much sense, since normal melee hits that a player suffers don't include a chance for item destruction. Item destruction is relatively rare (and ought to stay that way IMHO). And destruction of items made of crystal? Here's what the guidebook's table says for "Base item destruction chance:"
crystal 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% crystal armor/shields/dagger, gems

Well, even in lore, a lich's phylactery is very difficult to destroy. Putting it on an anvil and hitting it with a two handed maul wouldn't break it. But in game, ... there ought to be SOMETHING. Something chaos related, perhaps. Corruption trap?

Also, liches of lore don't carry their phylacteries around with them, but that doesn't change anything about your suggestion. "Safe places to store stuff" would become a much more important bit of meta-game knowledge for the lich class. :) I imagine they would receive a psychic notification if their phylactery were picked up and carried away by a random wandering goblin. Or, more likely, Twyat Pare, because the player forgot to lead him out of Terinyo before stashing the gem on the top line... but perhaps there would need to be penalties for the phylactery being in the hands of a (living) creature instead of safely stowed away from creatures with such filthy energy coursing through their filthy blood. Otherwise, who would care if a goblin got their phylactery? It would still be safe. (I am now imagining a lich 'g'iving his gem of phylactery to one of his undead slaves, and telling that slave 's'tay inside a locked room, never to be visited again.)

To be honest, I think I prefer the idea of lichdom as a replacement for the Necromancer's level 50 class power. Still, either way would be fantastic.

01-04-2013 10:14 PM
Pim Pim is offline
Member
P.S. This should be two RFEs, one for Lich and one for quickling.

01-06-2013 10:43 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Pim
P.S. This should be two RFEs, one for Lich and one for quickling.
Agreed. I like the quickling idea, but not so much the Lich.

01-10-2013 11:17 AM
The Creator
Neither will happen. Ascending to lichdom might be a nice thing for ADOM II, though (in a deeper way than through Necromancy in ADOM).

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