Minimize the influence of level scaling
issueid=998 05-07-2012 08:25 PM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by Al-Khwarizmi: 62
Minimize the influence of level scaling

Some time and versions ago, grobblewobble made this observation:

Quote Originally Posted by grobblewobble
I'd like to add some thoughts about experience and monster levels. At this moment, the type of monsters you meet automatically adjust to your level. This has a number of consequences:

1. The player cannot fight monsters below or above his level (except in the wilderness and in towns), eliminating a lot of player choice.
2. Gaining levels means your character get stronger, but monsters get equally much stronger (or worse). Therefore, you do not benefit from levels.
3. Because of 2, gaining experience is no longer a reward. Also, experience penalties are no longer a penalty.

In conclusion, as long as the monster adjustment keeps working the way it does, experience penalties cannot be effectively used as an incentive. In fact, they are an extra reason to multiclass, because it means you can gain more weapon marks and find more items before you gain a level and have to face stronger monsters.

So I propose to drop that system and tie monster types / strength to dungeon depth, as before.
With which I agree. Some discussion can be seen on http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=908

I'm opening a new thread because the suggestion was originally made in a thread about multiclassing, and I think this subject is important enough to merit its own thread and not to be lost among unrelated subjects.

My perception is that in version 0.2.6 the problem is less marked than in previous versions, but it still stands. If I'm level 18 I can find ogres and troll brutes (at the very least) on level 2 of any dungeon (and sometimes on level 1). If I'm level 5, I won't find such monsters even on level 7 or 8.

Right now, the technique with which I'm being more successful in game quest progress is: choose a troll (slow levelling), dive to the wizened old man killing few monsters if possible, dive to the shards killing few monsters if possible. With that, I can sometimes get 2 or 3 shards meeting nothing stronger than hobgoblins. On the other hand, if I stop to explore levels and kill monsters, I level and the game becomes rather more difficult with tougher monsters.

I think when the optimal technique in a game is refraining from getting XP and levelling, that game has too much level scaling. It should be the other way round: "Damn, an ogre lord! I can't descend this far yet, they're going to kill me... I'm going to go up and explore the upper levels for some experience".

So my suggestion is to make level scaling less influential (if at all). It was fine in ADOM, where the difficulty of the monsters depended on the danger level of the dungeon you were in, with small factors regarding player level and monsters killed but which didn't have too much of an influence.

The danger level of dungeon levels could depend on depth and on the dungeon itself... to give hints to the player about which randomly-generated dungeons are more dangerous, several things can be done:

- Hints in dungeon description ("a dangerous-looking cave" vs. "a dull-looking cave", etc.)
- Hints on entering the level ("You feel this place may be too dangerous for you", etc.)
- Information from NPC's in nearby towns
- Type of wilderness (less danger on the plain, more on the mountains)
- Location (maybe the poles could be more dangerous than the equator, or far areas from the Drakalor chain could be more dangerous)
- Wilderness encounters getting progressively more dangerous when you approach a dangerous area
- Scrolls, spells, and/or an ability of some classes (ranger?) providing an accurate estimate of danger level

So reducing or removing level scaling doesn't necessarily mean that players don't have ways of knowing where it's safe to go and where they are going to be charred by an ancient red dragon on entering.

I think, apart from improving balance, it would make the game much richer that every dungeon had its danger level, rather than always encountering goblins in any dungeon when you are level 1, and always encountering ogres when you are level 12. This makes all dungeons feel roughly the same.
Issue Details
Issue Number 998
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM II (formerly known as JADE)
Category Gameplay
Status Implemented
Priority Unknown
Suggested Version ADOM II 0.2.6
Implemented Version ADOM II 0.2.7
Votes for this feature 6
Votes against this feature 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




05-07-2012 08:29 PM
Issue Changed by Al-Khwarizmi
  • Applicable version changed from ADOM II 0.2.7 to ADOM II 0.2.6

05-09-2012 12:09 PM
Issue Changed by adom-admin
  • Issue marked as addressed
  • Addressed version changed from Unknown to ADOM II 0.2.7

05-09-2012 12:09 PM
Issue Changed by adom-admin
  • Status changed from Suggested to Implemented

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