Change "one total" RoDS from polymorph to "one per polymorph" soft limit
issueid=6175 04-12-2018 10:16 AM
Member
Number of reported issues by Pustka: 6
Change "one total" RoDS from polymorph to "one per polymorph" soft limit
Wish engins were bad but this hard limit robs ADOM of a lot it's magic I think like any hard restrictions in games.

So what i propose:
  • soft limit of "one RoDS per polymorph"
  • optionally a bit reduced chance of getting RoDS in polymorph


This hard limit that was implemented really feels like a very restrictive and unnatural thing. I am of course against wish engines. But getting one RoDS once couple polymorphs doesn't seem harmful or a thing that can be abused.

So what everyone else thinks about it ? Let's have some nice discussion here :)
Issue Details
Issue Number 6175
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 3
Suggested Version ADOM 3.1.5
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 11
Votes against this feature 8
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




04-12-2018 10:22 AM
Junior Member
I think wishes are freak-of-nature level events, that should be quite rare. I see your point, but basically you'd still be enabling wishes by simply grinding potions of exchange and random rings.

I'm slightly against this, but not voting quite yet.

04-12-2018 10:34 AM
Member
Well from my past games in the times of 1.1.1 or something like that i remember i had some characters that had bad luck for thing i needed like SoCR or RoI and without wish i would probably have no chance to finish the game with them. So i see wishes are remedy for bad luck with RNG and not in the way you do. Also correct me if I'm wrong but ADOM has quite "high fantasy" setting so this also speaks to me for more common occurrences of wishes. Yes they are miraculous, no they are not that uncommon in ADOM world :)

04-12-2018 02:50 PM
Ancient Member
You get one wish through pot grind to fix stuff. Why do you feel like you need more?

Strictly thematically, I would rather have exchange not to give RoDS at all. Or at very least pots of raw chaos stop producing potions of exchange... Cause chaos pots can not produce RoDS... so this thing of using them to generate potions who can do stuff they can't themselves feels rather degenerate.

04-12-2018 03:03 PM
Member
Quote Originally Posted by Soirana
You get one wish through pot grind to fix stuff. Why do you feel like you need more?

Strictly thematically, I would rather have exchange not to give RoDS at all. Or at very least pots of raw chaos stop producing potions of exchange... Cause chaos pots can not produce RoDS... so this thing of using them to generate potions who can do stuff they can't themselves feels rather degenerate.
Because pool can make your life hell. They are the last resort.

So a "magic potion" can transform items into other items just not into RoDS ? Why would this be any different the other items ? Just because it's powerful ? It is not an artifact just ordinary (wink wink ;)) item but very useful and powerful. As I see it the restriction is applied strictly for gameplay reasons. It is not backed up by any lore or anything else. And maybe remember that you are the great hero who will close the chaos gate or defeat the Chaos God. Doesn't couple wishes to help belong to this story ? I think this is exactly what you need to face a God. Of course some heroes might be more "epic", get better loot, have stronger race or class abilities and don't require that much help. But for me wishing for mighty items perfectly fits the story of our hero fighting powerful forces of chaos.

Never did any raw chaos transformation myself. From what i read they are quite risky on the exploding front.

04-12-2018 04:27 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Pustka
Because pool can make your life hell. They are the last resort.

So a "magic potion" can transform items into other items just not into RoDS ? Why would this be any different the other items ? Just because it's powerful ? It is not an artifact just ordinary (wink wink ;)) item but very useful and powerful. As I see it the restriction is applied strictly for gameplay reasons. It is not backed up by any lore or anything else. And maybe remember that you are the great hero who will close the chaos gate or defeat the Chaos God. Doesn't couple wishes to help belong to this story ? I think this is exactly what you need to face a God. Of course some heroes might be more "epic", get better loot, have stronger race or class abilities and don't require that much help. But for me wishing for mighty items perfectly fits the story of our hero fighting powerful forces of chaos.

Never did any raw chaos transformation myself. From what i read they are quite risky on the exploding front.
They are not if you know what you doing.

Maybe making RoDS into an artifact is the best solution indeed.

04-12-2018 04:43 PM
Ancient Member
I support this RFE, it reflects my thoughts precisely, as I have already posted about this problem in the past.
Simple polymorphy change was sufficient to eliminate wish engines and that was the only reason why the RoDS change took place.
This silly restriction of one polymorphed rods per game has to go.

04-12-2018 08:12 PM
mtf mtf is offline
Junior Member
I disagree with this idea. Hoarding rings / exchange potions so I can try to luck into multiple RoDS is *not* fun. This change will do nothing but add more grinding to the game. I will be voting against.

04-12-2018 08:36 PM
Member
I think the variables involved to produce a RODS - probability of success with the polymorph, the frequency of potions of exchange, frequency of rings to stack sufficiently - produce limiting enough conditions to relax the hard limit of one polymorph per game to one per polymorph. So, "yes" on this. Oh, and another limiting factor would be the distasteful "grind" element necessary to abuse it mentioned above.

04-13-2018 08:43 AM
Member
Quote Originally Posted by mtf
I disagree with this idea. Hoarding rings / exchange potions so I can try to luck into multiple RoDS is *not* fun. This change will do nothing but add more grinding to the game. I will be voting against.
You call it grinding, I call it putting in extra effort. Either way you only do it if you choose to. You are not forced to do it just because such option exists...

04-13-2018 09:11 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by mtf
I disagree with this idea. Hoarding rings / exchange potions so I can try to luck into multiple RoDS is *not* fun. This change will do nothing but add more grinding to the game. I will be voting against.
This. And also, wishes should be rare, as they are.

Voted against.

04-16-2018 09:36 AM
Junior Member
I disagree with this idea. Hoarding rings / exchange potions so I can try to luck into multiple RoDS is *not* fun. This change will do nothing but add more grinding to the game. I will be voting against.
------------------
sàn thép grating, tấm sàn grating, grating chuyên sử dụng trong công trình

04-19-2018 06:49 AM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by mtf
I disagree with this idea. Hoarding rings / exchange potions so I can try to luck into multiple RoDS is *not* fun. This change will do nothing but add more grinding to the game. I will be voting against.
I disagree. The same way you can grind now for most of the stuff that can be wished for. Moreover you still cannot wish for intrinsics and affixed items for example, which still makes grinding for non-rods desirable for some players.

04-20-2018 11:44 AM
Senior Member
Why were they bad?
Were they that easy to accomplish?
Were they that attractive to the players?

I feel like they were actually a fun and interesting side way of winning the game.

Just bring them back altogether.

04-20-2018 08:24 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by SinsI
Why were they bad?
Were they that easy to accomplish?
Were they that attractive to the players?

I feel like they were actually a fun and interesting side way of winning the game.

Just bring them back altogether.
WTF is 'they'?

04-21-2018 12:32 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Soirana
WTF is 'they'?
> Wish engins were

04-21-2018 05:38 AM
Ancient Member
Well, I am not sure what wish engines in plural are supposed to mean...

As far as ring engine goes... the hard part was to get the ingredients (ring stack in particular, pots could be generated via chaos alchemy (although it was not wide spread/known at the time)). Once you have 19 rings and heap of pots... it is dead simple and boring and you know eliminated any kind of challenge from remaining game. So, IMHO, it was not too funny and based on grind.

I am not sure how numbers were after pots changed from morphing whole stack too rolling per ring, but 'general' motion was what if player has big amount of rings and some water (byproduct of chaos alchemy to generate exchange potions) they could pull it (some wishes probably would go onto replenishing ring stacks). I am not sure it was ever done actually.

Thomas argument I believe was that RoDS engine was not a designed feature... guess he is not of a high opinion on emergent gameplay

04-21-2018 09:38 PM
Ancient Member
Yes, the introduction of that limit was completely unnecessary. Making items exchange individually and not stackwise had already solved the issue.
Extensive discussion and many good arguments can be found here:

http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=3400

+ Reply