Prayer dialogues
issueid=322 07-24-2011 10:04 AM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by EbbeLockert: 8
Prayer dialogues

I'm surprised if nobody has ever thought of this before, but I'll post it, as I can't find anybody who has.

When gods and praying start entering the picture, I think one improvement over the praying system in ADOM would be nice: When pressing the pray-button, you should get a question about what you want to pray for, just like a wish dialogue. You can then write an answer like 'food', 'healing', 'healing from poision', 'uncurse my armor'.

This is actually quite helpful, because in ADOM, a lot of the time my poisoned low-hp mage would like to have the poision removed rather than getting the HP filled back up. It also allows players to try out different things, and explore which oppurtunities the gods give.

(On a related note: It would be cool if different gods granted different miracles. While most gods should be willing to heal, some combat gods might bless your weapon, give you rage etc., while a god of magic could be willing to recharge PP, grant extra castings of a spell you already know, etc.. This makes the game more diverse, and it would be fun to experiment with different gods)
Issue Details
Issue Number 322
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM II (formerly known as JADE)
Category Gameplay
Status Suggested
Priority Unknown
Suggested Version Unknown
Implemented Version (none)
Votes for this feature 1
Votes against this feature 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




07-24-2011 04:29 PM
Senior Member
I think that the prayer options should be far more limited to general concepts, with a few options being activated at need. As such, I think it should operate as a list of choices, with the potential for new choices if certain conditions are satisfied.

Obvious default options:
- Healing
- Food
- Guidance (could provide you with either map info or the location of the staircases, perhaps?)
- Safety (could "bless", could give temporary speed increase, could teleport if surrounded by monsters)
- Knowledge (temporary boost to Learning)
- Willpower (temporary boost to Willpower)
- Strength (... you get the point, and same with appropriate words for other stats)
- Power (restore PP)
- World peace (depends on alignment, but can increase piety if used once in a while... use frequently at your own peril, though)

As a few examples of conditional prayers - Uncurse if you have cursed equipment, Poison healing if you are poisoned, Light if in a dark room, Help on special levels (for instance, on the equivalent of an Orb level from ADoM, to get a pickaxe), Memory if a spellcasting class (increases knowledge of spells that you're having trouble remembering), Intervention if many breeders are on a level, <Element> if you have the Pious talent (effect depends on the god - god of Fire would create a fireball around player), etc.

07-25-2011 02:31 AM
Member
i really like the idea of a prayer dialogue!

07-25-2011 05:11 AM
Junior Member
Some really exciting ideas here.

I like the idea of having a choice of what to pray for. In ADOM I put the lack of choice in prayer benefits down to busy Gods who agree to help your PC but may not always have the same idea of what classifies as 'the most urgent', and thus you simply get what you're given (like having poison removed when you're on 1HP).

I do like the idea of an input prompt for praying (like for wishing in ADOM). If you think about it, your character is praying to their God asking for help with something specific.. Not unlike religious folk do in real life..

Ranging from...

  • An urgent plea to heal their wounds ... *PC falls down a deep pit, snapping their legs* "Gyahh! Gods save me!"
  • To the general notion of prosperity ... Possibly in a place of worship or just simply in a non-combat situation "We thank ye, O mighty Gods, for these crops. May they blossom and provide much boon for our families."
  • To fertility ... "O gracious Gods, my wife and I want nothing more than to start a family. Blah blah something something.."


And everything in between..

I like the idea of being able to ask for something specific (or a general concept as Aielyn suggested) and hoping for the best.

Also, having more or different options available if certain criteria are met would be cool. PCs with equivalent of 'Pious' talent, any PC with high piety, Priests maybe get a class power which opens up a special option... Plenty of ideas.

07-25-2011 05:57 AM
xan xan is offline
Junior Member
I like the idea of different prayer options, and I really like the idea of having different gods available to choose from. Having a variety of gods can help to make the game more interesting, making a character more powerful, or adding a new level or challenge to the game.

The different gods might help you in different ways in the same situation, for example if you're low on health and pray for healing, a blood thirsty god might grant you life stealing for a few turns, a magic favouring god might give you a healing spell, another god might grant you healing potions.

I've been playing Desktop Dungeons a fair bit lately and really love how following one god or another can make such a drastic change to gameplay. I think it would be really cool to be able to follow different gods, much like how the proposed guild system will work for classes.

07-25-2011 06:24 AM
Senior Member
Here's an idea - three "levels" of prayer.

The first, and fastest, level is just the generic "Please <god>, help me!" - this works just like the pray option in ADoM, and the god will make a judgement on what is most urgent, and do that. It takes just one normal turn, and requires minimal piety by comparison with the other two. However, it's the most costly, piety-wise, relative to benefit gained, as well as lacking any sort of control. While the exact piety required for any given result will vary depending on the god you ascribe to, the actual result would be independent of the god. It would *always* be granted by the god you primarily ascribe to.

The second, requiring more time, can be thought of as more like a simple ritual, a prayer for something specific, such as healing, food, etc, as I listed in my previous post. This sort of prayer takes multiple normal turns (you won't die in the middle of it - the god will prevent you from dying during the wish, even from physically being sliced to death... but you'd better pray for health or equivalent, otherwise you'll be dead once the prayer finishes). It does, however, give you more choice in terms of what you pray for, and requires less piety (given the resulting action) than the basic prayer. It might also be influenced, for example, by holding a holy symbol. This prayer, you could also ask of any of the deities that you are reasonably close to, not just the one you're closest to.

The highest and most turn-consuming form of prayer, however, would require an altar to pray upon. This type of prayer would require even less by way of piety, allow you to explicitly ask for something (a la wishing), and provide you with opportunities to wish for things that you cannot get through the other methods of prayer. However, not only do you need an altar, but you may also need an appropriate sacrifice, depending on the prayer and the god to whom you pray. You could choose any god you know of (the names would be randomly-generated in each game, so you must know of the god in-game), but it must be either at their altar or the altar of a friendly deity (the god of life and the god of magic might be willing to take sacrifices/prayers from the other's altar, but I wouldn't recommend using the god of death's altar for either one).

Choice of god to pray to would matter, while relationship with that god would be the primary decider on whether a sacrifice is needed - if you're the deity's avatar, you won't need a sacrifice, and can ask for anything that doesn't contravene that deity's laws - for instance, wishing for things intended for killing from the God of Life would probably upset that god.

07-26-2011 03:03 PM
Junior Member
Maybe three levels are a bit over the top, but I agree that having at least two levels of praying could be a good idea:

One where you ask for assistance in the typical ADOM way, taking a single turn of action, but at least I prefer even this to have a dialogue (it is not very time consuming to shout out "Oh [god], please close my wounds!" or "Oh saviour, save me from this poison!").

The other one requires an altar or a holy place, etc., and can grant more powerful miracles to those who show their devotion. This could take a lot of time. This could be the way to change primary god, to become crowned, get permanent special abilities, get wishes, blessing, or resurrections of lost NPCs.

These long prayer sessions could pave the way to quests: "GOD X says: If you show your devotion by reestablishing my fallen temple in the PLACE Y, I will grant you my powers!"

07-26-2011 04:12 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn
Here's an idea - three "levels" of prayer.

The second, requiring more time, can be thought of as more like a simple ritual, a prayer for something specific, such as healing, food, etc, as I listed in my previous post. This sort of prayer takes multiple normal turns (you won't die in the middle of it - the god will prevent you from dying during the wish, even from physically being sliced to death... but you'd better pray for health or equivalent, otherwise you'll be dead once the prayer finishes). It does, however, give you more choice in terms of what you pray for, and requires less piety (given the resulting action) than the basic prayer. It might also be influenced, for example, by holding a holy symbol. This prayer, you could also ask of any of the deities that you are reasonably close to, not just the one you're closest to.
I don't see any particular reason why the god should prevent you from being sliced to death, starving, or dying by other means. It could just be that your prayer gets interrupted (like reading a spellbook in ADOM) when something bad happens to the PC.

07-26-2011 06:10 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
I don't see any particular reason why the god should prevent you from being sliced to death, starving, or dying by other means. It could just be that your prayer gets interrupted (like reading a spellbook in ADOM) when something bad happens to the PC.
I agree with this, delaying death should only be used for extreme situations (or never).

07-27-2011 01:35 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
I don't see any particular reason why the god should prevent you from being sliced to death, starving, or dying by other means. It could just be that your prayer gets interrupted (like reading a spellbook in ADOM) when something bad happens to the PC.
The logic is that the prayer continues as you *technically* die, and if your prayer is both granted and would prevent your death, then your life is restored in the process.

07-27-2011 03:03 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn
The logic is that the prayer continues as you *technically* die, and if your prayer is both granted and would prevent your death, then your life is restored in the process.
I would think that such divine protection would be a piety dependent effect then.

07-28-2011 02:09 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
I would think that such divine protection would be a piety dependent effect then.
Well, if you lacked the piety to be granted the healing, it's not like you'd survive either way. So it kind of works out that way, anyway.

Perhaps a prayer for health when you die in the process of making the prayer should be more costly than it otherwise would have been, though, since the god would have to go well beyond a simple increase in current HP.

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