More (and permanent) differences for races and/or classes
issueid=3694 04-14-2015 06:48 PM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by roguehack: 1
More (and permanent) differences for races and/or classes

Suggestion:

I would like to see more permanent differences in classes and races, it seems that now only class powers make any "final" difference. For example now an elven wizard is as good in for example melee combat than a troll warrior, if their stats, weapon skills, equipment etc. are the same. Also, for example the troll regeneration bonus can be gained with potions and/or corpses. Maximum age can be adjusted also. The only thing that makes any difference in the end are the class powers. So, i suggest some ideas for your evaluation:

- Limit stats, weapon skills, healing/mana rates, age (any, some or all of these or more) by race and/or class, so for example a troll could have 99 str and 40 learning at maximum, with ANY means available or a drakeling could only have a maximum dexterity of 50. These values could be adjusted by both race and class, like values start at maximum 99 and the race/class factor would adjust these maximum values for like wizard -40 max str, troll -60 max learning etc. These values are made up without any further thoughts of balance etc., just to demonstrate the idea. These limits could not be raised by any means available, not even wishes. So the final result would be that for example a hurthling could not ever get as strong as the strongest troll. That hurthling could be stronger than the troll, but if these two were at the peak of their power, you would see the difference. Same for for example weapon skills. So a wizard could ever learn only max 10 levels for melee weapons, or a semi-caster could not ever learn some spells. So that even after infinite training the wizard could not fight as good as the greatest warrior in melee. Also maybe restrict certain armor or weapons by class (like the beastfighter now). So no shield when casting or something like that.

- Character traits, that make permanent differences. Chosen at character generation, optional. Made up examples (not concerning balance etc., just made up to demonstrate the idea):

"Magic disability: Can not ever learn any spells by any means available, but potions and wands have increased effect. (more damage etc.) "
"Sluggish: Movement costs 120% normal energy. Food costs only 25% of normal values."
"Reckless: Cannot ever use shields. Melee weapons always do +15% damage."
"Short sighted: Maximum visibility radius 2 squares. Permanent automatic searching."
"Bodybuilder: Maximum carrying capacity +30%. Can not ever learn how to read."
"Gladstone Gander: Permanent good luck. Cannot ever get any companions / summons to his/her side."

The idea of these traits would be to make permanent differences, in a way that the differences are not "repairable" by for example potions. So no ideas like "+10str, but -10dex" since this could be negated with items. Or no "+15spd, but -25% max age" for the same reason.

I apologize for language issues in advance.
Issue Details
Issue Number 3694
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 10 - Lowest
Suggested Version ADOM r58
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 4
Votes against this feature 4
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




04-14-2015 07:20 PM
Senior Member
I'm not sure where I stand on this issue just yet! The changes to stat potentials still haven't fully 'sank in' in my mind yet, and I think they might be a good way towards what you're describing. I have a feeling race has a lot more to do with stat potentials than class does!

I do want to chime in and say, though, that age *is* a significant difference from one race to another. Hugely so. Potions of longevity are ridiculously rare and not terribly effective, since to short-lived races a potion of longevity's % increase adds so few years, it doesn't even equate to a single extra ghost lord hit!

There are also massive racial differences surrounding the 'find weakness' skill for non-magic-users, but as you mentioned that can eventually be wished for or made redundant with 'slaying' or '+crit' items.

04-14-2015 07:27 PM
Ancient Member
IMHO, the only two races that really stand out as uniquely different are trolls and mist elves, and to a much lesser extent, drakelings (much lesser now since their main differences can be picked up through corruption). Not that there aren't major differences in terms of stats (especially now that potentials are meaningful), equipment, skills, etc. with the remaining races, but a lot of these do tend to get ironed out in the late game.

I'm not sure that in this stage of development such a major change to character creation is likely to happen. I don't dislike the ideas presented; I'm just not sure it's a priority issue to try to rebalance all of the races.

04-14-2015 07:59 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
IMHO, the only two races that really stand out as uniquely different are trolls and mist elves, and to a much lesser extent, drakelings (much lesser now since their main differences can be picked up through corruption). Not that there aren't major differences in terms of stats (especially now that potentials are meaningful), equipment, skills, etc. with the remaining races, but a lot of these do tend to get ironed out in the late game.

I'm not sure that in this stage of development such a major change to character creation is likely to happen. I don't dislike the ideas presented; I'm just not sure it's a priority issue to try to rebalance all of the races.

I agree, good ideas, but we're unlikely to see anything like this any time soon.

04-23-2015 05:15 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by sylph
There are also massive racial differences surrounding the 'find weakness' skill for non-magic-users

What differences are those, may I ask?

05-04-2015 01:03 AM
Senior Member
The fact that 'find weakness' allows a character to kill strong opponents without requiring slaying ammo. Find weakness means clearing the tower using nothing but thrown rocks. Find weakness lets a character beat those steel golems in melee. Without find weakness, your options for melee and ranged combat are hugely limited. Basically, find weakness is such a massive help for a melee or ranged character, and since some classes don't get it, the choice of race becomes extremely important, given that orcs and dark elves get the skill.

05-07-2015 02:10 AM
Ancient Member
Oh, I thought you meant the skill behaved differently depending on the race.

11-24-2015 10:49 AM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
As we're bringing attention to it... I like the idea in general but not sure about concrete suggestion and the way how they could work. I'd break this down into smaller RFEs to consider each change separately.

11-24-2015 11:50 AM
Senior Member
The races are mostly ok, the skills and stats differentiate them nicely where special features do not. They're different for 90% of the game, 90% of players never get to the point where they're not. It's fine for everyone to become a demigod by the endgame because, well, you can become a demigod at the end of the game.

Humans and High & Grey elves really lack any compelling reason to ever play them IMO - every other race has standout features.

11-24-2015 02:11 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by shockeroo
The races are mostly ok, the skills and stats differentiate them nicely where special features do not. They're different for 90% of the game, 90% of players never get to the point where they're not. It's fine for everyone to become a demigod by the endgame because, well, you can become a demigod at the end of the game.

Humans and High & Grey elves really lack any compelling reason to ever play them IMO - every other race has standout features.
The elven races should get at least a bonus to their skills or even better limit skill levels by race and class. An elven wizard has been studying magic and reading scrolls for the last 800 years and then comes Krak, the 10-year-old troll barbarian with 3 learning who just ate two dark sage corpses and their literacy is the same. Sigh.

Same limits for stats etc.

11-26-2015 04:05 AM
Junior Member
I don't agree with too much stat limitation, but I absolutely adore the recommendations for character traits - which could be either manually chosen or randomly assigned in a flavourful way based on their character histories!

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