Multiple equipment outfits.
issueid=2215 07-06-2013 12:22 PM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by Stingray1: 97
Multiple equipment outfits.

I often end up having 2 to 6 different 'outfits'.

Here are some I use most often(even more, depending on class and items found):

1. Melee fighting
2. Missile combat
3. Travelling(in dungeons)
4. Spellcasting

5. Even one for travelling in the wilderness, but not used as much as the above.
6.


I was wondering whether there could be a shortcut added to quickly change between these different 'outfits', rather than having to find each piece of equipment in inventory every time.

Obviously the usual turns will pass while re-equipping.

Cursed equipment will also have to be taken into consideration. Also order of original equipping, for example girdle over or under body armour. The easiest way would probably be some sort of macro that link to the items in inventory.

An example of shortcut keys could be; the usual 'i' followed by '0-9' for the selected 'outfit'. Re-equipping only takes effect upon pressing 'z'. So, if the player decides he would rather keep the current equipment equipped, (s)he can just press corresponding number key and 'z'.

I hope everyone understands what I'm asking for, if uncertain, I'll try to use different words.

Footnote - I would certainly play a lot more if this is implemented, currently I have to take very long breaks as even equipping just a weapon on each encounter is too much to handle for long.
Issue Details
Issue Number 2215
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Rejected
Priority 10 - Lowest
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 15
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 7
Votes against this feature 13
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-17-2013 11:06 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
If I stop min-maxing I will likely get bored with ADOM and stop playing all together. My entire life I have been, I'm scared to even use this word, perfectionistic and that is me.

If I prefer to play ADOM in my way, why try to force me away from that habit? It's not detrimental to me, quite the contrary.
I'm not trying to "force" you to play another way (no idea how I would do so). I'm simply stating a fact: if you have to take breaks from ADOM because you are min-maxing at every encounter, and it, being tedious, makes ADOM unenjoyable after some period of time, then not min-maxing means this situation will not occur.

Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
Voting no on this RFE is being malevolent, IMHO. The only purpose of this RFE is to make equipment switching less tedious for some players.
It is, in fact, not malevolent. While I find changing equipment as tedious as the next person (thus, I don't do it outside of special situations [e.g. TOEF, Air Temp, MT, selling things before being crowned]), I don't think this (a) is the right solution [c.f. JS's posts in this thread] & (b) should be encouraged [c.f. next paragraph]

Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
It promotes good practices, not any bad ones. Getting maximum to hit and damage during missile combat, melee combat, getting the most from magic, shorter game time passing, protecting your PC and items and more gold from shops are good things. Name them if you think there are any.
This type of min-maxing on every encounter way be a "good practice" in-as-much as it increases your chances of not dying by some token or non-token amount. The exact same thing can be said of, say, starting a Wizard out in the Bug Temple (something you're against as I recall), which certainly has a much, much bigger effect on survival. That doesn't mean it should be encouraged.

Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
BTW, you can continue playing in your style even if this gets implimented. And I don't recall ever berating anyone for not playing ADOM not "right", be so kind as to link those posts.
Well, I'll own up to using perhaps too strong a word with "berate". However, plenty of your posts in http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=1388 are in this vein. I'd say your posts in the "pure CK" thread also skirt the line. Those are the ones that jump immediately to mind.

12-18-2013 02:52 AM
Junior Member
Never thought id actually agree with any of your RFE, though i do and i have upvoted it. There is no harm in it, and might be useful even for less minmaxer players like myself, who still swap gear when reading books or shopping

12-18-2013 02:54 AM
Junior Member
it might be a bitch to code, though... but then again, if games like everquest can do it, so can adom!

12-18-2013 07:43 AM
Ancient Member
@SirTheta by voting no to this you are indirectly forcing me to not swap out equipment as often as I would like. This is how I want to play as I enjoy playing that way. I have always, all the various equipment items are in the game for this reason, in my view. This is playing the game for me, ADOM has many different equipment items and I like using them to my advantage. I don't like losing characters or items. Having a high success rate is more fun for me than seeing in how few turns I can finish the game.

I have no qualms with any character starting in the bug temple?

None of my statement in that RFE is in that vein. I responded to one post, yes, which stated something along the lines of: If you want to play properly, you must get healing. My statements in that RFE and the CK thread was merely to state that CKs can be played succesfully without healing, scumming or grinding. I did those test runs specifically to test this as I was and now are more of the opinion that they are fine as is. Meaning they are balanced, I did not intend beration. Apologies for mis-communicating that.

12-18-2013 03:56 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
@SirTheta by voting no to this you are indirectly forcing me to not swap out equipment as often as I would like. This is how I want to play as I enjoy playing that way. I have always, all the various equipment items are in the game for this reason, in my view. This is playing the game for me, ADOM has many different equipment items and I like using them to my advantage. I don't like losing characters or items. Having a high success rate is more fun for me than seeing in how few turns I can finish the game.
This is very bizarre, so I'm just going to respond to its merits. You have your playstyle, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean features need to be added to conform to it. I'm sure there's someone who would like to pickpocket every creature because it provides more items and thus decreases the probability of dying - but doesn't because it's pretty tedious. Should this person suggest there be an option to automatically pickpocket a creature when in melee range, would we have to assent to it because it's the way they play the game? You and I would both find that pretty absurd, I think, and we would probably both agree that downvoting said RFE would be based on solely on the merits of the RFE and not on personal enmity (or malevolence) towards the player. I've already stated my opposition to this RFE, and I voted based on what I personally think is appropriate/best for ADOM rather than any "malevolence" towards you.

Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
None of my statement in that RFE is in that vein. I responded to one post, yes, which stated something along the lines of: If you want to play properly, you must get healing. My statements in that RFE and the CK thread was merely to state that CKs can be played succesfully without healing, scumming or grinding. I did those test runs specifically to test this as I was and now are more of the opinion that they are fine as is. Meaning they are balanced, I did not intend beration. Apologies for mis-communicating that.
In case this wasn't clear, my usage of "berate" was incorrect (i.e. too strong a word for the situation). I meant more along the lines of criticizing people for not playing the way you play.

12-18-2013 04:36 PM
Ancient Member
I never used sage and yet some of sage's features were added, I did not go and vote no on it. I think I voted yes on the auto-pickpocket RFE even though I'm not going to use it. Some more features I voted yes on which I will likely never use. I can go look and list them if you want.

Not once did I criticize any person's playstyle in those threads, I will go read through them now to check what you mean. I will maybe criticize scumming yes, but that is not a playstyle.

Edit - I see now where I may have confused you, there where I said something along the lines of, this is not only how I want to play the game, but how I think it should be for everyone. I was of course talking in context, the context being CKs getting healing in response to _Ln_'s last sentence in the post prior to that.

12-18-2013 05:01 PM
Member
I voted for this feature because at the moment every time I have to cross a river in the early game I would happily use this, the game could make it even more convenient if You could define "named outfits"

outfit 1 - travelling
outfit 2 - fighting, melee
outfit 3 - fighting, missile
outfit 4 - swimming

12-18-2013 05:20 PM
Ancient Member
Thanks, Nobbse. One could of course also ask that a name be added to each outfit screen, but I do not want to push for too much coding work into this.

I think through practiced use one will get to know your 'outfits', anyway it's just a quick glance at the equipment to see which outfit you are currently looking at.

12-18-2013 05:43 PM
Senior Member
I'd imagine that crossing a river is supposed to be quite tedious - you remove your equipment, stash it into the backpack and swim to the other side, where you get your equipment back and wear it again. This feature would be nice... if only we could magically change our outfits in a blink of an eye.

I think that current equipment swapping is much more appropriate for ADOM - it take some time, both ingame and outgame to swap something. You are right that constant equipment swapping is tedious... but hey, change you clothes 20 times a day. It would becase tedious even quicker.

Dont get me wrong - thats a nice feature, but it contradicts with realisting approach that ADOM usually uses.

12-18-2013 06:10 PM
Member
By no means it's meant to be changing outfits should take one turn. Constant equipment swapping should be indeed tedious for the character - but not for the player. It should take the same turns as if the player changed each item for it's own. There are interesting intermediate problems with resistances etc. what happens when a monster arrives while changing outfit - so sometimes the player should still change his outfit manually in some stuations to define the order of item exchange for himself.

12-18-2013 06:15 PM
Ancient Member
What realistic approach? If I'm a paranoid adventurer walking down a dusty wet dungeon corridor and I can only see ahead of me a few metres, but I have a weapon that magically makes me faster and see further. I would wield that baby. When I see a Red Dragon jumping around the corner, I'm going to get my dragonslaying halberd out of my backpack, take my crown of lightning off and pop another crown onto my head, take my ring of see invisible off and pop my ring of ice on.

Not doing that in a 'real' world would be, um, not wise.

12-21-2013 02:17 AM
Senior Member
I agree with JellySlayer's macro idea, it would let people create their own command strings. I was thinking of RFEing an "unwield all wielded items" and "wield items last wielded" command to make it easier to put your weapons in your pack when crossing rivers and for other purposes. With macros supported, I could just create an "unwield all wielded items" macro myself, at least.

12-21-2013 03:13 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
When I see a Red Dragon jumping around the corner, I'm going to get my dragonslaying halberd out of my backpack, take my crown of lightning off and pop another crown onto my head, take my ring of see invisible off and pop my ring of ice on.

Not doing that in a 'real' world would be, um, not wise.
Doing that in a 'real' world would probably get you approximately 3 times roasted while searching in your backpack and putting things on and off.

12-21-2013 04:07 AM
Junior Member
That depends if the red dragon has seen you!

Now, let's start a flame war. Who is for implementing paranoid_remove, ie confirmation for removing any piece of equipment?! :p

*laughs maniacally*

01-28-2014 09:41 PM
The Creator
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
I have stated this before. I don't think this is hours work, why do you think so? It is simply having 10 copies of the 'i'nventory screen and taking cursed and missing items into consideration. I'm almost certain every item generated in a game has a 'code name', so they are easy to link to equipment slots.

How can you predict how many will use this, I'll be so arrogant to say that some of the nay sayers here will even use it.
You are no programmer, are you? This actually is many hours of work. A very basic estimation would be:
  • create new data structures for the mirror inventories (I can't just copy the existing single one as that really takes actual item instances; if I were to multiply the current structure all the item damaging/carrying code would have to be modified to allow for items to appear in more than one place [extremely hard give the current internal implementation]) - so something like 4-6 hours given that a UI needs to be added for the new data structures
  • rewrite the code for single its changes to use a series of item changes that additionally takes into account a change forecast (e.g. is able to to abort/prevent the sequence if it obviously would not work due to cursed items, etc.) - something like 8-12 hours, probably more close to 12 hours due to the many special cases and details involved (e.g. having to extinguish equipped torches, etc.)
  • add markers for items to show that they are used in more than one inventory - 1 hour
  • find a system to notify him of losing items not currently equipped but essential part of one of the mirror inventories - 1 hour
  • handling inventory aborts due to "interesting things happening around the PC" - 1-2 hours
  • handling weird special cases (like e.g. unequipping a girdle of strength that suddenly crushes the character, equipping an amulet of strangulation that starts to kill you, becoming transformed into a writhing mass of chaos in the middle of changing equipment, safety checks for such things, etc.) - 1-20 hours depending on the level of safety and perfection you strive for
  • testing - 2-4 hours
  • taking into account that you might have to abort inventory switching in the middle of it as you only then discover that an item is cursed (which maybe you didn't know before) - ??? hours
So in total we look at 46+x hours. Distributed over my normal work days at 1.5 per day (at most) I get to something like 30+ days of time.

I don't see this happening in the near future. At least not before all the rewards from crowd funding have been added.

01-28-2014 10:08 PM
Ancient Member
Also any other special cases you forgot...
Then there is need to make some implementation choices like if one has uncursed metal cap [+0, +3] in one of the sets, shall it remain in the set in case it becomes cursed or blessed or stats change in either direction?
And what if you read a scroll of amnesia and forget functions of some or all your items?

It's definitely all but simple work...

01-28-2014 10:24 PM
Ancient Member
No, no programmer here. This is/was a very low priority request, but thanks a lot for looking at it and giving a very good explanation as to why it is not feasible.

The inventory searching feature and notes next to items is going to make finding items in inventory very easy anyway. Wondering whether it would be possible to have the notes a different colour?

Looking very much forward to the next prererelease and all the wonderful things happening. Thanks again for everything you and Team ADOM have done already.

01-28-2014 10:28 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
amulet of strangulation that starts to kill you
Is this going to be one of the new items? :D

12-26-2015 04:52 PM
The Creator
@Stingray1: Sadly your estimation of the programming complexity is way off. I assume you are not a programmer, are you? If ADOM were a modern OO based system with a clean architecture it might be slightly simpler but even then there are quite a few hidden complexities.

Personally I see the following problems (besides it being a huge amount of work to add for some very specialized cases as far as I am concerned - but convince me otherwise by getting a lot more votes for it):

- If you get interrupted while changing "outfits" (e.g. by damage, an advancing monster or whatever) you might be stranded in a very incomplete equipment state. I'd bet a lot of money that people will be complaining about the game changing items in a less than perfect order resulting in them being killed due to a bad state of outfitting.
- There are lots of interdepencies that might change the viability of prepared outfits (e.g. your weapon might get cursed... suddenly you no longer can remove your gauntlets... which means that you no longer can swap rings, etc.). I guess that a lot of harm might be created by that.
- When items get destroyed you will have to check all the prepared outfits to see if they still make sense. The same might be true for when items in your backpack get cursed as you might no longer want to equip them. Then you'd probably expect ADOM to select the "best match" - which is a very hard question in itself.

In summary I see far more problems than benefits and thus reject this RFE.

+ Reply