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REF feeling undeads

03-10-2016 02:19 PM

unholy

Member

Number of reported issues by unholy: 11

REF feeling undeads

lesser undeads should not flee

As I wrote on the steam forum, lesser undeads are braindead or are ghosts and should not take the initiative to flee when low on hp. They should only flee when a holy symbol is used or the pally power.

IMHO the following undeads should not flee:
Ghost
ghost lord
ghost king
ghost bat
Ghul
Spectre
wight
wraith
Shadow centipede
All skeletons (except kings?)
Zombie
Revenant
Steel zombie
Mummy
greater mummy

The following undeads should stay the way they are

Rehetep
Skeletal king (not sure, but he's a necro so maybe some brain activity here)
Shadow wyrm
vampire
shadow
shadow lord
shadow troll
Slow shadow
Lich
Master lich
Lich king
Emperor lich

There may be some that I forgot.

Issue Details

Issue Number 4289

Issue Type Feature

Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)

Category All

Status Implemented

Priority 7

Suggested Version ADOM r66 (v2.2.0)

Implemented Version ADOM r66 (v2.2.0)

Milestone (none)

Votes for this feature 9

Votes against this feature 1

Attachments 0

Assigned Users (none)

Tags (none)

03-10-2016 02:28 PM

auricbond

Ancient Member

Not sure I agree on the specific undead but the general idea is sound. Certainly the gormless lesser undead should not have a survival instinct.

03-10-2016 02:34 PM

Shinae

Senior Member

I agree that ghosts, skeletons, zombie type of undead should not flee panicked from combat. I would however keep the date effect on "local undead seen moving out". And perhaps in some sort of flavor L+ champions / paladins could still make them run away in fear if that's not too hard to add.

03-10-2016 02:38 PM

Blasphemous Blasphemous is offline

Ancient Member

Corpse fiend is missing.

I'm not certain if the fleeing mechanism isn't more like a convenience for the player character, rather than something that makes or doesn't make sense.
On the other hand I agree that more intelligent undead should have a sense of self preservation while the lesser ones that are pretty much devoid of sentient mind, should not.
Another thing is that a mindcrafter using mindcraft against *any* undead, receives a backlash in form of "undead conscience clawing at your mind", so even the basic skeletons apparently have some sort of primitive mind.

03-10-2016 02:52 PM

auricbond

Ancient Member

Also might be an idea to disable the fleeing property on undeads that would otherwise have it if they're under necromancy control.

03-10-2016 03:07 PM

Blank4u47

Ancient Member

Originally Posted by auricbond

Also might be an idea to disable the fleeing property on undeads that would otherwise have it if they're under necromancy control.

Totally agree with this, one of the worst parts of being a necromancer is having your mindless slave become afraid and kill you. It's so bad that I consider it a survival feature to *NOT* raise undead companions.

03-10-2016 03:57 PM

unholy

Member

Originally Posted by auricbond

Also might be an idea to disable the fleeing property on undeads that would otherwise have it if they're under necromancy control.

I totally agree with this as well, doesn't make much sense anyway. It contributed to turn me off that class completely (didn't even closed the door with it).

03-10-2016 04:00 PM

unholy

Member

Originally Posted by auricbond

Not sure I agree on the specific undead but the general idea is sound. Certainly the gormless lesser undead should not have a survival instinct.

Yeah I didn't put much thought into it.

The shadows aren't really undeads in my book which is why I want them to be smart enough to flee.
Skeleton kings I really don't know. Either way is fine I think.

03-11-2016 01:49 AM

SinsI

Senior Member

They also should not Rage if you, say, eat a corpse of a similar monster.

06-15-2016 05:53 AM

adom-admin adom-admin is offline

The Creator

Actually ADOM does have an indicator for the amount of brain activity for monsters. Truly the flight code did not take into account mindless monsters which I now have changed. Mindless monsters now never flee from fights. Additionally that piece of code also forgot to check a special "no flight" flag given to some monsters. It now also is correctly handled.

But many of the undead mentioned above are not mindless but have some intelligence... and thus might decide to preserve their existence to return to a fight later on. Skeletons and zombies no longer are among those ;-)

06-15-2016 06:37 AM

pjsb1

Senior Member

Wow, this is a cool update. Hopefully there are quite a few monsters that will stop running away when they get hit once or twice. Thanks Creator!

06-15-2016 11:46 AM

Blank4u47

Ancient Member

Yessssssss!

06-15-2016 12:40 PM

_Ln_

Ancient Member

So how does that work with turning undead? Pretty sure it uses the flee mechanic.

06-15-2016 01:22 PM

Blank4u47

Ancient Member

Good point. But on a side note, does anyone actually use turn undead??

06-15-2016 07:21 PM

_Ln_

Ancient Member

Originally Posted by Blank4u47

Good point. But on a side note, does anyone actually use turn undead??

I once escaped the High King (had some shitty equipment and got pinned down by him and summons) by turning him which allowed me to switch tactics and break out. Of course he's not on mindless list, but still.

06-16-2016 09:10 PM

daft inquisitor daft inquisitor is offline

Member

If I'm picturing the way it's coded properly, there's a certain script that checks to see if monsters *should* flee when they take so much damage, and it's set to disregard that if the enemy is mindless. However, a Turn Undead check should use a different script, which should force undead to flee, rather than ask the other script if they should. So, *IF* the game is coded the way I think it is, this update should not affect Turn Undead.

06-16-2016 09:41 PM

adom-admin adom-admin is offline

The Creator

Turning causes flight behavior, but as the source is different from panicking due to wounds there is no conflict between these two mechanisms.

06-17-2016 09:13 AM

_Ln_

Ancient Member

Originally Posted by adom-admin

Turning causes flight behavior, but as the source is different from panicking due to wounds there is no conflict between these two mechanisms.

Oh, thanks for clarification, this sounds reasonable.

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