They're going to be adding more quests to do before level 45 so I think it's reasonable(ish) to say that that will be fixed by the extra quests that will be added. Although removing the requirement would be a great help to trolls, I think I'm neutral on this one.

Meh, I think trolls are ok - they have lots of advantages in exchange for the slow levelling, and farming to level 45 is still easy (and not even that tedious) for them with some planning.

But the farming is a completely unnecessary and boring step. I was lvl 40 in my current game (dwarf wiz) when finished with Mana Temple and Srraxxarrakex. And I had cleared every single place there was, except for the minotaur maze and killing the water dragon. So even by doing all kinds of extra stuff, the problem remains.

I wouldn't have raised this if the case was that you're lvl 40 with a straight dive down.

But since you don't reach level 45 with 'normal' play, additional levelling is not unnecessary - you either have to farm (which is tedious), or use different alternative methods to gain large amounts of exp (which is strategic).

Edit: With varying amounts of risk/difficulty, there are ways to gain that exp fairly quickly. In my recent troll ultra, I used one particular reliable one (no luck, but some risk) to gain something like 20 million exp in ~30 kills.

I didn't say it's not possible. I said it's not doable via normal gameplay.
Getting ultras require already quite a bit of additional tricks. Grinding the BDC or wishing for EM is just an additional (and pretty damn big) annoyance.

May I ask you, what is the added value of this forced grinding, if you consider it a good thing?

I'm for removing the level requirement as well. It doesn't promote meaningful gameplay and the 1.2 rebalancing of experience enhances the negative effects. Challenge in the ultra should come from difficulty not grind.

I'm not talking about wishing for EM - I said no luck involved, and getting wish(es) is luck. There is a completely reliable, no grind way to generate a high xp mob.

Being cryptic serves no purpose. Also earlier you mentioned several ways to do it - now there's only one?

So, given that you avoided the question, I assume you don't really have any answer to what added value the forced grinding would bring?

Maybe he's referring to the eternal guardian(s)? That actually sounds more annoying than grinding the BDC.

I'm dying to know! My best guess right now is summon monster spell in the stone circle? Last time I did that I was instantly surrounded by karmic wyrms!

Yes, the eternal guardian was the specific one I referred to as reliable - no equipment destruction like in BDC, no waiting or looking for respawns, and each kill is worth considerably more xp than a greater moloch. While he penetrates armor, he doesn't hit quite hard enough to be as much a oneshot threat and can be whittled down and then finished off while self-slowed if necessary.

Edit: I mentioned several ways, and several have been brought up already. Nowhere did I say there were several reliable ways.

But what you described is exactly grinding. Deliberately generating several EGs to kill off, just for the sake of xp.

Still waiting for the stellar comment on the added value of this forced grinding. As Tappi said, the challenge in ultras should come from something else.

I think high-level quests should be high-level because they pit you against difficult enemies, not because of an artificial level requirement. "You must be this tall to ride" type requirements don't belong in roguelikes IMO—everyone should be allowed to ride, but it's their own problem if they slip between the guard bars and die.

I second the RFE. The keyword is the aforementioned grinding; there's no reason to force people to do that. If a character can get and finish the quest, it can. As for possible future content making it easier to hit the level cap: yes, it might make hitting the required XP level easier, but that still doesn't really say why said limit is a good thing. It just forces players to waste time. Also, the majority of players going for ultras are pretty experienced in the game. For them, inflating a run's length with artificial padding is just annoying, as it wouldn't really require additional planning or skill, just patience.

Hmmmm... while I see that argument against grinding I'm still not sure whether to change this. The line of reasoning behind the level limit always has been one of "worthiness to be considered for the quest". If you are playing an assassin, being level 30 is enough (hey, trolls). If you are no assassin, the assassin prince is more picky... so story-wise it makes sense for me that he just doesn't distribute quests to any adventurer coming around the corner.

Naturally one could say if you are powerful enough to get to him, you might be worthy enough...

A feasible workaround would of course be to implement such an array of new story-optional quests which makes it natural to gather the needed amount of xp. ;) The major point here is that currently It Is Simply Not Fun, not that it would be too difficult.

I mean, if you clear all greater vaults, do all quests, and in general kill every monster in sight, and you still end up missing 5 lvls, you should have reasonably the needed worthiness.