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Improve Justifier for non-Paladins

05-13-2014 09:52 PM

shockeroo

Senior Member

Number of reported issues by shockeroo: 50

Improve Justifier for non-Paladins

Justifier sucks for non-Paladins, even vs the monsters it's supposed to slay. It should at least be effective vs the unholy.

Problems:
- Justifier is barely as effective vs Demons and Undead as a non-slaying weapon of the same damage. It should at least be a good choice vs the unholy.
- Justifier's damage halving is hidden from players, not even apparent with greater identify.

Suggested change:
- Increase Justifier's base damage from 3d5+10 to 4d6+12; change Paladin's damage multiplier from x2 to x1.5; change non-Paladin's damage multiplier from x.5 to x.75.
- Add 'It's full powers evade all but paladins.' to the greater identify effect.

Or more simply, just scrap the penalty for non-paladins; but I'm guessing TB wanted it there. :)

Issue Details

Issue Number 2972

Issue Type Feature

Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)

Category All

Status Rejected

Priority 10 - Lowest

Suggested Version ADOM r48

Implemented Version (none)

Milestone (none)

Votes for this feature 2

Votes against this feature 4

Attachments 0

Assigned Users (none)

Tags (none)

05-13-2014 10:04 PM

Blasphemous Blasphemous is offline

Ancient Member

I think the best solution would be to just completely remove it from random lists and only leave it as possible crowning gift for paladin, much like moloch thorns etc. for CK.

05-13-2014 10:11 PM

shockeroo

Senior Member

I like that too.

05-13-2014 10:33 PM

Harwin

Ancient Member

If it becomes a crowning gift for paladins(and no other way to get it), the damage should just be set to what it actually does for paladins, no secret doubling.

05-13-2014 11:27 PM

SirTheta

Ancient Member

I used to think this, but it's actually pretty good against demons and undead (for non-Pally's) despite the damage being halved. You can do the calculations yourself if you need proof - it took me a while to be convinced of this fact in IRC :p

I think the current state of affairs is fine.

05-13-2014 11:33 PM

shockeroo

Senior Member

I disagree from experience in my current game; I have Justifier (3d5+10) and a long sword of mayhem (3d8+6) and they seem to take the same number of blows to kill undead.

I suppose this still leaves Justifier better vs undead than most regular one-handed weapons, but it feels odd that it's no better than something with comparible stats.

05-14-2014 12:28 AM

sylph

Senior Member

Are they both blessed, shockeroo?

Slaying scales very strongly with your character's base damage... Slaying doubles your base damage as well as the weapon's, which is important when you have 40str from the fire orb! This means even if they are equal now, justifier will soar ahead when you fight those ghost lords on D:50!

05-14-2014 02:30 AM

JellySlayer JellySlayer is offline

Ancient Member

The half damage (and double damage) from Justifier applies to the entire damage mod as well. Slaying and the half damage should exactly cancel out regardless of your stats.

I vote against, FWIW. Justifier is fine as-is.

05-14-2014 08:05 AM

Al-Khwarizmi Al-Khwarizmi is offline

Ancient Member

I think the working of Justifier is OK but the ID and greater ID texts should be changed, it doesn't make much sense that a weapon does half damage than it says it does (doing double makes more sense, as it's a hidden bonus... but hidden mali in an artifact that is lawful and supposed to be good just doesn't look right to me).

05-14-2014 02:18 PM

anon123

Ancient Member

I think that even though non-paladins are somewhat likely to find Justifier with the random artifact fix and guaranteed greater vaults, the current behavior is fine. The hidden double damage for paladins and half damage for all others is one of those small things that contributes to ADOM's lore.

05-14-2014 03:31 PM

Harwin

Ancient Member

I really just want it to show up in the Greater ID. If you spend a Greater ID to find out about it, you should know.

05-15-2014 08:27 AM

grobblewobble grobblewobble is offline

Ancient Member

Originally Posted by Harwin

I really just want it to show up in the Greater ID. If you spend a Greater ID to find out about it, you should know.

That would be great. There was an RFE for improving greater ID.

05-15-2014 03:44 PM

Harwin

Ancient Member

Originally Posted by grobblewobble

That would be great. There was an RFE for improving greater ID.

Indeed :)

http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=2775

05-17-2014 06:36 PM

YourMum

Senior Member

I say no. I'm assuming it's only a crowning gift for Paladins now. The only way to get it otherwise is randomly. You're as likely to get it as you are the gloves of peace, the black tome, the cat's claw, long sting, all the staffs, and all the other lame-ass artifacts.

07-06-2014 05:25 PM

adom-admin adom-admin is offline

The Creator

I like it as it is.

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