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Thread: How to Avoid Crashes

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default How to Avoid Crashes

    After recently losing a very promising character to a crash, YET AGAIN (though I should be thankful that this one didn't happen on my final descent toward an ultra ending, as has happened before), I wanted to A) Bitch about it, but more importantly, B), Get some advice about what exactly causes these crashes and how to prevent them.

    I know the following will crash the game: Eating a werewolf lord/king corpse, picking any talents from the 'Skilled' line, finding a wand of wishing (which will either crash the game or cause you to descend into a dark room, take a step, and bump into a greater titan).

    What else? For my part, it seems to crash most often on certain actions, typically walking onto a certain item/pile of items after a heavy battle, or on Chatting to certain NPCs (such as asking Thrundarr about 'quest' for the final time, to slay the greater daemon.). It doesn't always happen in these cases, of course, but it's happened a few times.

    I tend to have less crashes (and also, when I do crash, I can typically continue playing) when I play jaakos's fantastic online server. I'm not entirely sure why this is. Unfortunately, I can't play it where I am currently, as for some reason the Numberpad controls are all messed up (e.g, I hit '8' and 'y' comes up instead). I've tried setting the key-thingie in Putty to Normal and Roguelike, but it didn't really do any good.

    I've also got to confess that I'm not entirely sure what ADOMSage does (and to be fair, it's not easy to find out with simple Googling). If that's got any kind of no-crash functionality, please tell me about it.



    As much as I love ADOM, the one thing that stops it being the best Roguelike in my eyes is its terrible stability. I've had the odd crash on other Roguelikes, Incursion being a prime offender, but the thing that makes it worst about ADOM is the fact that characters are so irretrievable. Say what you like about Angband, it's so easy to save there that you're unlikely to lose more than ten minutes of progress.

    I really do think TB should have designed a better save system, in the context of the poor stability. Keeping in mind that it's easy enough to cheat anyway (copy & paste your save game before doing X), there's no excuse for not implementing some feature that would allow people to recover some kind of backup if the game were to crash. We're mature people, we don't cheat because we don't WANT to, not because we can't. (Yes, I know you can make your own backups by quitting, copy/pasting, then starting up again, but it interrupts the flow of play so much that I'm sure I'm not the only one who leaves long gaps between doing this. Now if it were a simple press of 'Shift + S', or hell, an auto-save on leaving/entering a level, well, that would be perfect).

    The more I think about it, the more I wonder about how possible it would be to write some kind of front-end that does exactly that (if this is actually what ADOMSage does, then please tell me gently, as I'm going to feel like a complete retard. Or is this what Jaakos's server does? Hmm).

    EDIT: My God, there are probably more brackets in this post than there are in the whole ADOM code!
    Last edited by Covenant; 04-01-2009 at 12:51 PM. Reason: Social commentary. About brackets.

  2. #2
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    Default

    The only close thing i ever saw was... scumming tool.

    I mean loader which let's you keep you old saves in case you die/crash. Unluckily that saves only the hassle to create coppies.

    Just before some stupid statements - i never used it...
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  3. #3
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    Some more common crashes:

    -too many items on level (eg from ants digging out the whole place) and monsters trying to pick up too many things
    -dropping ingots (bug with them stacking)
    -Khelly dropping items (best to back-up before giving him his amulet)

    ADOM Sage uses the Linux version of ADOM (it's basically a Linux terminal emulator) and in my experience seems a little more stable. I've had very few crashes playing the game in the last 8 years or so.
    Platinum Edition ADOMer
    http://gamesofgrey.com - check out my roguelikes!

  4. #4
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    I gave up using sage on my PC cos it was crashing more often than WinBeta4, go figure *shrug*.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soirana View Post
    The only close thing i ever saw was... scumming tool.

    I mean loader which let's you keep you old saves in case you die/crash. Unluckily that saves only the hassle to create coppies.

    Just before some stupid statements - i never used it...
    If it prevents the save file being deleted while playing (and similarly while crashing/dying), but doesn't actually make the game save at any point, it seems rather useless, as you say.

    Just out of interest, would people be in favour of a tool that automatically backed up saves? Or would it be too near cheating for some people? Not that I could make it, my programming skills are paltry (I'm piss-poor with pointers), but it's an interesting line of enquiry.

    In desperation I had a last fiddle with Putty and actually got it to work right with the online server, so that's something at least.

  6. #6
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    The server does auto-backups of the game state as far as I'm aware, so even without saving you can reload after a crash.
    Platinum Edition ADOMer
    http://gamesofgrey.com - check out my roguelikes!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant View Post
    If it prevents the save file being deleted while playing (and similarly while crashing/dying), but doesn't actually make the game save at any point, it seems rather useless, as you say.
    Yes, but i always thought it can be relatively easy transformed into something which would not close game while saving... Ofcourse the only way to end game session would be "q"uitting it.
    Too much of scumming, modding Adom for my own taste...

    Re: server - if you can live with delay. I personally can't and i don't even live in other side of world or have slow connection..
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  8. #8
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    I used to have a wee batch program I wrote which backed up my saves... you still had to actually save first though, so I don't bother now... I only ever back up if I am doing something really crash dangerous (amulet to kelly, dropping stuff on an altar, planing to create some rocks with earthquake) sometimes. Usually i just forget, and die to a crash, despite fact I have plenty of oppurtunity due to tendency to play for very short turnsets...

  9. #9
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    > what exactly causes these crashes and how to prevent them.

    In a way, the more scumming you do, the more likely it is.
    On a speedrun attempt, the only crash I have ever gotten
    is a Khelly-crash, and those are related to an item drop
    bug (I think). ADOM 1.0.0 is rock stable compared to 1.1.1.
    You have to give up the talent system, uber jackels (which
    is a bug I actually like), and a system that renders DV
    rather worthless, but it has advantages too : )

    > I know the following will crash the game: Eating a werewolf lord/king corpse,

    Actually, that doesn't any more.

    > descend into a dark room, take a step, and bump into a greater titan).

    They don't see in the dark.

    > walking onto a certain item/pile of items

    The item related bugs rarely if ever happen in speedruns, and
    also in ADOM 1.0.0.

    > Chatting to certain NPCs (such as asking Thrundarr about
    > 'quest' for the final time,

    Never had that one actually.
    > the one thing that stops it being the best Roguelike in my eyes is its
    > terrible stability.

    Agreed. Crawl only crashed on me a few times, and the save was
    efficiently recovered each time. The thing is... I don't PLAY Crawl
    any more.

    > I really do think TB should have designed a better save system,

    Let's remember it's a free game : )

    To summarize, just spend fewer turns in games, skip doing things
    like gathering up (and stashing) hordes of items, and hope for
    the best when chatting to Khelly. Alternatively, just play ADOM 1.0.0.
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  10. #10
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    Jan 2009
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    Most crashes I get are when dealing with large amounts of items. Since there are several places where it's wise to do a drop-all before entering, I always backup before. One time, when that actually did happen, I restored the backup and dropped only sections at a time to see if it was caused by a certain item. Apparently, it was: some unidentified ingots I had just smelted. Weird.

    Crawl is quite stable... sort of the opposite of ADOM, in which it gets updated like every other week. It used to have one recurring bug, in which the game crashed any time you got sent to the abyss (not very sad for many players, as you likely die anyway when that happens =P).

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