comment on the mindcrafter guide: getting moar out of mindcraft

[Gheist]

I have, I assure you. Huge, take up most of the map. Typically have a 'core' area that contains fairly large amounts of gold on the floor, and between 1-4 artifacts on the floor (usually, in the corners of said 'core' area). Outer areas has oodles of monsters of a particular type, with the center area having a few more around the inner edge (usually) with much tougher varieties in the very center.

If magic mapped, most also typically (for whatever reason, I don't know) either have a single door (literally) in leading in. Those that happen to have multiple entrances to the vault, are typically (though blatantly obviously) masked by hidden doors. This can be be used as a major advantage, should you for whatever reason not want to challenge the vault, as the large number of monsters within the vault ALMOST pacifies the dungeon level in question. You may run in to a couple of creatures, occasionally, that aren't all locked in the vault with the goodies.

In thus, characters wanting to achieve an ultimate/ultra ending, if they're lucky enough to get a few of them. - I've noticed almost every character that gets down that low, gets at least one. A couple don't, but, are often made up for with the 'surges of power' in another location. The rare cases (which are extreme, at least from my experience) that get more than one, dispite getting get less 'surge of power' artifacts (if any at all), and, also tend to get less artifacts from each greater vault they encounter.

The most artifacts I've ever had generated on a character at one time, has been 42, with an assured 44 being the top off on what I 'knew' I could get (as I completely avoided gremlin cave and quickling tree). Anything further, would have to come from pick pockets for a very small number of pickpocketable artifacts, and random generation (likely easiest from the blue dragon lair, as if I'm not mistaken the varieties of dragons, save for the 'baby' types, have the highest chance for an artifact generation on death). Could raise that balance to 45, if you count the shield in dwarftown that's 'available' for lawfuls. 'Available', but not assured. I've read that on several occasions he didn't give a lawful the sword. Probably linked with the altar, in that receiving the shield is based on your alignment when you FIRST enter dwarftown (i.e. how the altar is lawful if you first enter dwarftown as a lawful, and neutral if you first enter as either neutral or chaotic), which also affects how much you can 'buy off' your alignment by giving the dwarf priest gold (MUCH faster than using the '1 gold' method, and, zero risk of item destruction, altar conversion, cursing, getting zapped, or having creatures summoned with intent to kill you. If you enter first as lawful, 'buying' your alignment up, can be raised to 'L', while, if you first enter as neutral or chaotic, this method only works to 'N-' (which is more than sufficient to get ToRR, if that's your only reasoning for alignment change in the first place). Thus leading me to believe that all of dwarftown is heavily alignment based, on your first entry (similar to how you have a single 'fated' artifact, that dispite how hard you try, will always be your crowning gift for that character.


I also believe that vault (or at least greater vault) generation is heavily influenced by the number of artifacts that you've already found, and/or have been (pre/post)crowned with. A character with only about 10 artifacts generated (a hard thing to do, beings as even if you didn't pick it up, it still was generated) will have a much higher chance for a greater vault, or surge of power, than someone who already has 20-30+ artifacts.

As far as artifacts and religion go, the most you can receive from piety is 16 artifacts - 15 precrowned (8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38, 41, 44, 47, and 50), and 1 crowned. Doing this, however, will also (usually) make you sacrificed a large number of artifacts that have no 'random' generation (ankh, AMW, minotaur axe, ect) that are based on level. This can be 'worked around', if you have a huge amount of spare time, the gardening skill (stoma's), select the black druid quest (but never enter the level he's on), and have been lucky enough to have somehow garnered a bunch of danger scrolls (you'll also, obviously, need a way to pacify a map, likely with an altar really close to it, that's also near the surface - PC: 1 is a good place, if it has an altar spawn). Most of you can probably catch my drift with this, but, getting the 15th (and probably 14th, for that matter) is almost completely theoretical, as piety will decrease with time. So, while your desperately trying to powerlevel yourself in a danger scroll augmented pyramid (not fun), your piety is constantly going back down. Though, even IF you happen to be successful in getting all the way to level 50, and managing to nab a 15th precrown BEFORE you ever enter the top floor of the pyramid, manage to get the ankh and ancient mummy wrapping, and survive all the crippling corruptions you likely have picked up by now (as you'll likely be gardening your way well past day 90, just to get this started)...you still lose out on the minotaur axe.

After that, you can still go pick up the torc, Keethrax will still be there. However, even killing him (and even giving the corpse to the druid in town) will not give credit for completing the quest. The druid will simply give you the unicorn quest start, and not mention about Keethrax ever again.



What does all that have to do with greater vaults? Mostly nothing... As, if you manage to complete even over 2/3rds of it, you'll more than likely be extremely lucky to even see one greater vault, and, even if you do...it'll (almost assuredly) only have one artifact in it. So, if you do something whacky like that, you can be pretty sure you wont get many 'vault problems', unless they're of the 'lesser' or 'royal' variety. That's what.

[grobblewobble]

I don't think I ever implied mindcraft isn't useful; it's just very specialized and not as universally applicable as magic. For me, this is the reason why mindcrafters are very interesting to play, because the power of their mindcraft depends a lot on the player's creativity and resourcefulness.

I'm sorry if I misrepresented your opinion.

As for taking out red dragon vaults with mind wave, I think I'm just too conservative for that. Those monsters generate with greatly varying levels of power that I don't want to risk it. One of my bards with super smithed protective equipment and serpent's bite had to go off a level to heal twice before managing to take down just a single great red wyrm.

The higher dragons are usually (depending on the vault layout) locked up inside a walled off area, which makes it safe to take them out with mindcraft. As I said, the dragons will be completely helpless because they can't attack you through a wall and you can.

Wyrms may regenerate too fast to kill this way, but ancient reds do not. In any case, it is precisely the fact that a mindcrafter has an absolutely risk free method of damaging them that makes mindcraft so good in my opinion.

[JellySlayer]

I also believe that vault (or at least greater vault) generation is heavily influenced by the number of artifacts that you've already found, and/or have been (pre/post)crowned with. A character with only about 10 artifacts generated (a hard thing to do, beings as even if you didn't pick it up, it still was generated) will have a much higher chance for a greater vault, or surge of power, than someone who already has 20-30+ artifacts.

Greater vault locations are determined at creation. Lesser vaults are too IIRC. The artifacts in them aren't, though, nor are the monster types. I would hazard that in a greater vault, it rolls an artifact from the random artifact list, and if it chooses one that you already have, it gives gold instead. Surge of power is probably a similar idea, since they're just an artifact floor drop. Both are probably only affected by the number of random artifacts you've found.

This can be 'worked around', if you have a huge amount of spare time, the gardening skill (stoma's), select the black druid quest (but never enter the level he's on), and have been lucky enough to have somehow garnered a bunch of danger scrolls (you'll also, obviously, need a way to pacify a map, likely with an altar really close to it, that's also near the surface - PC: 1 is a good place, if it has an altar spawn).

If you're going for more than 3 precrowns, it's probably worth your while to piety scum. Likewise, if you're going to try to level to 50 in the pyramid, you'd better have a wish engine available to you. I'm not sure what the theoretical upper artifact limit is. Probably about 50, I'd guess. Highest I know of is 47, but he could have got 5 more had he savescummed his precrowns and then pickpocketted, and he missed at least the sceptre of chaos and boots of great speed. He skipped 3 precrowns to get the ankh, AMW, and AoTME. He did get the platinum girdle and medal of chaos, though.

[Grey]

I've gotten 15 precrowns with dragon gold before. Then the game crashed when I gave Khelly his ammy Was certain I'd break the record for artifacts generated in the game... and moreover was highly curious as to what would happen if I threw a potion of uselessness when I'd already received all random arties. Oh well, don't have the patience to try again now...

[Sradac]

i find mindcraft useless just because of the large amount of corruption enemies and undead later on. Those mindcraft powers arent stoped by walls or doors. no way to know what you might accidently hit.

[Sradac]

greater vaults can be some great fun though. blue dragon vaults are always a quest in their own.

[Soirana]

i find mindcraft useless just because of the large amount of corruption enemies and undead later on. Those mindcraft powers arent stoped by walls or doors. no way to know what you might accidently hit.

that and fact that you want willpower badly as Mindcafter, which in late game means your waves deal with 1/4 if not half the dungeon level.

Although smaller stuff teleport control, teleport, confusion blast and mind shield actually makes them very effective fighters. Well, maybe like class which could be default fightes [let say with skipping all non mentioned mindcrafter powers.] since fighters honestly suck and suck hard.

[grobblewobble]

i find mindcraft useless just because of the large amount of corruption enemies and undead later on. Those mindcraft powers arent stoped by walls or doors. no way to know what you might accidently hit.

There is something in between using it as the solution to everything and "useless". There are certain situations where it works well, like the mana temple, tension rooms and vaults. Imagine a tension room full of quickling queens. With a regular fighter you will not see them coming and possibly be overwhelmed; a mindcrafter will see the situation ahead of time thanks to eyes of the mind, grin, lock the door and fry their brains out.

Please note I'm NOT advocating use of mind blast as a regular damage spell, because it sucks at that. What I'm saying is, to use it in those situations where you can take advantage of walls between you and a powerful enemy.

Further, you do have a way to know what you might accidentally hit. Eyes of the Mind. Now, of course that shows only the corrupting monsters and not the undead. However, accidentally hitting one or two undead is not that bad. It will damage you a little, but that's all. You'd have to be extremely unlucky (or careless) to accidentally kill yourself from backlash damage.

[Sradac]

isnt the backlash damage dependent on the level of the undead though? I seem to take a lot more backlash dmg from a lich or greater mummy than a simple zombie or ghul.

[grobblewobble]

Tested. Minor undead (ghoul, skeleton) dealt about 8 - 12 points of backlash damage. Greater mummy, ditto. Griff Bloodaxe, ditto. Haven't tested for lich yet, but so far I don't see much difference.

Edit:
Skeletal king: 10-13 damage
Lich: 9 - 13 damage

I think the differences in the tests are just a statistical fluke, cause I did no more than 3 tests on these monsters. If someone wants more thorough tests, feel free to do them. In any case, if there is a difference it is so small that it doesn't really matter.