View Poll Results: Are you interested in iADOM?

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  • Yes!

    27 29.03%
  • I'm not sure.

    8 8.60%
  • No!

    44 47.31%
  • Only if it's available for the iPhone too.

    14 15.05%
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Thread: iADOM - how big is your interest?

  1. #91
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    Aug 2009
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    >> Lots of people *I know* would just press [X] on any popup they
    >> see (such as "Would you like to update?").

    You speak as though updates are a needed thing. I don't think they
    are. I'll try not to be too boring, but here's why I think this.
    Up until last year, I happily used a win98 (first edition), 300
    MHZ emachine. I kept NO antivirus software regularly
    installed for 12 years, though I would occasionally borrow a disk
    from a friend for testing. I never had a single virus. Getting
    virii is much more a 'user habits' thing than a 'lack of security
    updates' thing.
    It is possible for an attacker to get into your computer without you ever doing anything aside turning it on. However, the vast majority of attacks require participation by the user in some way or another since it just makes things so much easier.

    That said, it is all up to the user's paranoia to try to determine what kind of defenses needed for that particular system. If it is just a home system and your most sensitive data is some embarrassing pictures of you at your friend Chad's birthday party when you had a few too many drinks, you can get by without any protection. This isn't secure but as long as you aren't targetted by a determined attacker who wants to add your machine to his bot net, you won't get many trojans or shit on it.

    However, if you offer a server which is linked to by other websites (in other words, advertised) this instantly makes it a target to several attacks and should undergo what us security fanatics call "system hardening". One of the important steps of this process is applying updates and patches since discovered vulnerabilities are the easiest ones to exploit and there exists tools for script kiddies to develop their own attacks exploiting these vulnerabilities. If a script kiddie can write a virus which can infect that system, you don't even want to know what kind of nasty things an experienced attacker could do to it.

    Lessons learned along the way:
    'cd downloads' isn't the same as 'cd Downloads' (actually knew that one, but forgot)
    'cd..' isn't the same as 'cd ..'
    'cd downloads' + 'cd adom' + 'adom' isn't the same as 'home/w/downloads/adom/adom'
    Learning command line is the most difficult part about becoming a true Linux user. When you learn how to though, you can do some extremely powerful things using scripting. Also, it gives you that awesome early 90s feeling when you are sitting in a dark room with nothing but a terminal window open and some [insert 90s music artist] blasting on the boom box.

    Second, I timed Ubuntu's boot time. From power on
    to desktop took 30 seconds, same system boots vista in 60.
    You can get this to be even faster if you compiled your own kernel with only the bare necessities. :b
    I said it before, and I'll say it again. If I knew scripture like you, I'd prolly be an athiest too.. -gut

     /l、
    (゚、 。 7  
     l、 ~ヽ   
     じしf_, )ノ

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    719

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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > Are you sure about the phone home thing, maybe it is just hidden?

    100%. Installed and used the OS's for months without even having
    net access. I have only ever bought PC's that come pre-installed
    with win. I realize now they didn't come with standard win OS disks.
    Maybe MS has reason to believe all OEM install/recovery disks are
    purchased, so treats them differently.
    Well unless you give it internet access you of course have no chance to observe any hidden phone home thing.
    And observe means using Wireshark or equivalent, not "theres no popup that says its phoning home so there aint any".
    OEM installs are usually preactivated or autoactivate on first boot. (And that only works if you run it on the right hardware.)

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    >> Lots of people *I know* would just press [X] on any popup they
    >> see (such as "Would you like to update?").

    You speak as though updates are a needed thing. I don't think they
    are. I'll try not to be too boring, but here's why I think this.
    Up until last year, I happily used a win98 (first edition), 300
    MHZ emachine. I kept NO antivirus software regularly
    installed for 12 years, though I would occasionally borrow a disk
    from a friend for testing. I never had a single virus. Getting
    virii is much more a 'user habits' thing than a 'lack of security
    updates' thing.

    > what do you propose how we deal with them?

    Really, to my mind, the question you ask translates to this 'how
    do we force users to update' or put a bit more gently 'how do we
    protect users from themselves'. To my paranoid/skeptical mind,
    this situation stems from the fact that users routinely give
    themselves pr0n or WaReZ virii, then call/clog tech support
    and loudly blame everything except the pr9n or themselves.

    My solution would be to treat adults like adults. Tell them once,
    I would even tolerate upon install, that some web sites and
    softwareZ such as pR0n/haxor/craxor are full of virii. If they
    plan to visit these sites and execute these WaREz, be prepared to
    be mercilessly spammed, trojaned, phished, and crashed for all
    eternity. Tell them that their only hope is regular updates and
    uber antivirus software. Make these features easy to access, and
    tell them how. Tell them, in any event, not to clog tech support
    lines with their pron-virii problems.
    Thats the way it is now. Doesnt work.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Popups are the work of satan. I say design and advertise linux
    as the OS for grown-ups.
    Most people arent grown-ups when it comes to computers. At least thats my observation.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Having said all above, ubuntu is better than a free thing has
    a right to be, and I feel stupid for complaining about it now.
    Oh, the "you get what you pay for (now with exceptions!)" attitude. Doesnt work for free software.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > realistically there is nothing I can do to make sure the vendor
    > doesnt give me something malicious, so I just trust them.

    On a scale of 1 - 10, I give that a 2.

    > The good track record of the Debian project helps.

    I'll give that an 8.

    > I don't trust Microsoft at all,

    I'll give that a 10.
    I mostly agree with your scores.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    >> , as I am still extremely impressed with how easy the install was.
    I just dont understand why installing another OS scares the shit out of users.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > Gotcha

    I wouldn't say I'm hooked yet, but I will say very impressed. I read
    a bit before installing, about how many hardware manufactureres don't
    provide drivers for linux, so sometimes linux authors have to even
    reverse engineer them. I was prepared for a tedius process, yet it
    was easier than some win app installs. If they are that good
    in one area, they deserve the benefit of the doubt in others.
    Fact: there are more drivers for an up-to-date Linux install than for the most recent Windows version(s). Why? Because forcing users to rebuy hardware generates profit.
    Things look very different if you look at "drivers for devices released in the previous two years".

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > I hope no one assumes I am some linux guru.

    I wasn't referencing anyone specifically. Just stuff I picked up
    from leeching some linux help sites. Seems that sysadmins all over
    (even google if memory serves) just trust linux update servers to
    not misbehave. I don't believe it is the nature of man to not
    misbehave, but I don't have sensitive data in general, and certainly
    none on me desktop, so for now I'll go with the flow.
    No we don't. In fact I just had to deal with a hacked linux server. (This is a private server, not a work server, running various operating systems on about a dozen VMs belonging to about a dozen owners. No, the VM that got hacked wasnt mine.).

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > the code used is open source so

    I'll give that one only a 6, as I'm not sure the update code is
    open source. Is it? If it is, and there is already a standardised
    way of self-policing it, I'll happily give it a 10.
    The debian guys are fanatic about only accepting free/open source stuff. They have unfree repos but they are disabled by default.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Accidentally got adom to run through the terminal. Dragged the adom
    icon to the terminal and it gave me the command I needed.

    Lessons learned along the way:
    'cd downloads' isn't the same as 'cd Downloads' (actually knew that one, but forgot)
    'cd..' isn't the same as 'cd ..'
    'cd downloads' + 'cd adom' + 'adom' isn't the same as 'home/w/downloads/adom/adom'
    "./adom", not "adom".
    Because the current directory is not in the search path. Otherwise someone might put, say, a virus there and call it "ls" ("dir" on windows). Now imagine root cd'ing into the directory then typing ls.

    Quote Originally Posted by fazisi View Post
    It is possible for an attacker to get into your computer without you ever doing anything aside turning it on. However, the vast majority of attacks require participation by the user in some way or another since it just makes things so much easier.
    I know its quite old, but if you want to have some fun install a WinXP RTM (= no SP1/2/3, no Updates), put it in the DMZ and wait a few minutes. Trust me, you'll see when you have waited long enough

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    That said, it is all up to the user's paranoia to try to determine what kind of defenses needed for that particular system. If it is just a home system and your most sensitive data is some embarrassing pictures of you at your friend Chad's birthday party when you had a few too many drinks, you can get by without any protection. This isn't secure but as long as you aren't targetted by a determined attacker who wants to add your machine to his bot net, you won't get many trojans or shit on it.
    I dont fucking care about how home users protect their data. But when their machines start, for example, sending spam messages, it gets a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Learning command line is the most difficult part about becoming a true Linux user. When you learn how to though, you can do some extremely powerful things using scripting. Also, it gives you that awesome early 90s feeling when you are sitting in a dark room with nothing but a terminal window open and some [insert 90s music artist] blasting on the boom box.
    The command line is mostly optional these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    You can get this to be even faster if you compiled your own kernel with only the bare necessities. :b
    I've never done this, and I suspect compiling my own kernel would take longer than I would gain by it running faster



    ok today i wont review my post because its fucking late and i gotta get to work tomorrow
    Of course it's unfair - that's the whole point.

    The Adom wiki: everything you don't want to know about Adom.
    http://ancardia.wikia.com/

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
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    Originally Posted by gut
    That said, it is all up to the user's paranoia to try to determine what kind of defenses needed for that particular system. If it is just a home system and your most sensitive data is some embarrassing pictures of you at your friend Chad's birthday party when you had a few too many drinks, you can get by without any protection. This isn't secure but as long as you aren't targetted by a determined attacker who wants to add your machine to his bot net, you won't get many trojans or shit on it.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gut
    Learning command line is the most difficult part about becoming a true Linux user. When you learn how to though, you can do some extremely powerful things using scripting. Also, it gives you that awesome early 90s feeling when you are sitting in a dark room with nothing but a terminal window open and some [insert 90s music artist] blasting on the boom box.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gut
    You can get this to be even faster if you compiled your own kernel with only the bare necessities. :b

    Funny, I don't remember saying any of that.


    > just dont understand why installing another OS scares the shit out of users.

    You misunderstood me. I wasn't shying away from work, I was impressed with results.
    When I find competence from one source in one area, I figure it is probable to find more
    from them.
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  4. #94
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    Aug 2009
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut
    Funny, I don't remember saying any of that.
    gut and I may appear very similar but please give credit where due.
    I said it before, and I'll say it again. If I knew scripture like you, I'd prolly be an athiest too.. -gut

     /l、
    (゚、 。 7  
     l、 ~ヽ   
     じしf_, )ノ

  5. #95
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epythic View Post
    "./adom", not "adom".
    Because the current directory is not in the search path. Otherwise someone might put, say, a virus there and call it "ls" ("dir" on windows). Now imagine root cd'ing into the directory then typing ls.
    Nice explanation, I didn't know that was the reason for not adding "." to the path by default.

    Anyway, I still find that reason a bit flimsy. Can't they place "." as the last entry in the search path so that if you type ls it first goes to /bin/ls (or wherever the command is), and only if it doesn't exist it goes to ./ls?

    One of the first things I do when I configure my home linux installs is adding "." to the path.

  6. #96
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epythic View Post
    I know its quite old, but if you want to have some fun install a WinXP RTM (= no SP1/2/3, no Updates), put it in the DMZ and wait a few minutes. Trust me, you'll see when you have waited long enough
    Reminds me of this:



    From xkcd
    Any time a player finds Executor and fails to use it, the RNG kills a cute dog.

    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  7. #97
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    Jan 2009
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    iADOM - how big is your interest?
    I'm not interesed in iAdom at all, I'm afraid.

  8. #98
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    Mar 2008
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    Downloaded Nethack for the iPhone and futzed around with it for a couple of days. I suspect I'd actually play iADOM fairly often. I'd like a second ultra. =)

  9. #99

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    All the Apple hate is ridiculous. There are pluses and minuses with any OS/hardware/software.

    iPad is awesome for surfing the Web in bed without frying your reproductive organs with your laptop. It's also awesome for reading pdfs online like stuff for school through Academic Search Complete. It's also the only device that appeals to everyone in my house (for different purposes and in different contexts) including my wife and 6 year old kid. It is not meant to be an everything device...it fills a niche in terms of usage.

    I tried nethack on it and hate the tileset. I'd buy iADOM in a second...specially if it were under 5 bucks.

  10. #100
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    Mar 2008
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    Russia
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    It will be a typical iADOM player.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRXFBP9X1sg

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