View Poll Results: Are you interested in iADOM?

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  • Yes!

    30 29.41%
  • I'm not sure.

    11 10.78%
  • No!

    46 45.10%
  • Only if it's available for the iPhone too.

    15 14.71%
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Thread: iADOM - how big is your interest?

  1. #81
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    "Lacking a computer science degree" does not equal "total idiot".
    ADOM Guides - whatever you wanted to know about playing a certain class, but have been afraid to ask!

    Check out my youtube channel to see my ADOM videos, including a completed playthrough of the game. I try to give instructions, so if you want to see some place you haven't been before and get some hints on how to deal with it, this might help! There's also some other games featured there that you might find interesting.

  2. #82
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    If you administer a computer and you're an idiot (you could even have a computer science degree and still be one), you fall into the category of people I just defined.
    I said it before, and I'll say it again. If I knew scripture like you, I'd prolly be an athiest too.. -gut

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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    I wasn't meaning large programs like gimp or open office.
    Oh, well, thats a problem right there, because Ubuntu ships a lot of those large programs, and Windows doesnt. These take a lot of space on that CD, I guess. But all you need to run it is included on the CD.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    I'm
    pretty sure it was just operating system stuff that it said
    needed updating. I seem to remember countless dozens of names
    like 'lib***' type stuff. See, the first thing Ubuntu did upon
    install was phone home.
    So does Windows: last time I checked the first thing you do with your new Windows install is "activate" it (let it phone home so that MS knows its out there).

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    It auto-checked for updates, and that's
    something I certainly didn't give it permission to do. Granted,
    it wasn't difficult to disable it, but that isn't the point.
    What is the point then? It is a beginner distro, and the vendor seems to think that such an autoupdater that shuts up and just gets the job done is perfect... for beginners. I agree, you disagree. Who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Stuff like that is why I want to get away from windows.
    Which you'll have to activate before you can even use it. The net effect is the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Ubuntu's
    'install manager' gave me a (HUGE) checklist of things (OS
    looking things to my eye) that needed updating. This was odd, as
    I had just DL'd the latest distro, which is quite recent.
    I think it makes sense; the packages on the CD can't be the absolutely newest packages, because they have to freeze some time before they release that CD, so that they can guarantee that its stable. Every software vendor does it that way. (RTM version must be able to *run* standalone without any updates. And it does.)

    Also, would you prefer not to get so much updates, and have more older versions? Try Debian/stable (I use that on my server because its rock solid. You get a new release every few years, and apart of that only security updates, only a few each week). Granted, they are a bit extreme about it, sometimes the version they ship are several years old (+ new security fixes). One way to look at Ubuntu is as a fork of Debian with the aim of bringing more up-to-date packages to the user.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Disturbing thing is, I just checked the machine before posting
    this in an effort to get more specific names. When I ran 'check
    for updates' manually, it told me I no longer needed any, as the
    system had been successfully updated within the last few days. I
    ran it again to make sure, then it told me I had last updated
    'less than 4 hours ago'. If I did, I certainly didn't mean to, I
    only wanted to check. I'm now leaning toward uninstalling ubuntu,
    as I don't think I can trust it.
    Well that behaviour is a bit weird.

    Anyway, as long as you are not going back to Windows, fine. I think I get the impression that you are not really part of Ubuntus target audience, so maybe you should try another distro. Still, what you just described sounds like a bug to me or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    I'll maybe try a different linux distro, but I'll not try Mandriva.
    I saw a youtube vid of installing mandriva, and it spams you to
    'register your OS now!' during the actual install process...
    Thats optional as far as I see. As long as that is the case, I dont see where the problem is.
    Now if it was "register now with some 3rd party and get the awesome XY toolbar for your browser" I'd see your point.

    I have never used Mandriva myself and so can't really comment on it. (I've only used OpenSUSE, Ubuntu/Kubuntu, Gentoo, Arch Linux and Debian, and right now I use Arch for desktops and Debian for servers).

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Anyhoo, my adom effort was brief. I DL'd adom-111-elf.tar.gz and
    extracted it. I double clicked on 'adom', nothing. I right-click,
    chose 'open', nothing. I right-click 'properties', check the
    'allow executing as program' box still nothing. Right-clicking
    doesn't list any option like 'run as admin', but I got no prompt
    for a password. I don't think it's a proggie I have to compile.
    I'll try again later.
    I'd try opening it in the console. Just like any other console program, it just dumps its output to stdout and gets input from stdin, which are of course not shown if you just doubleclick on it. Granted, that might be a bit confusing for beginners, but at least to me it makes perfect sense.
    (Who plays console games these days? Aside from us, of course...)

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    I tried DL'ing InfraRecord. It's 'compile.txt' says I need Ms visual
    basic 6 and some other stuff I'm pretty sure I don't have. I don't
    even remember that being on the mega list of stuff from the update
    list. Maybe I'm too dumb/lazy for linux...
    Because thats a windows-only program, as it says at the home page (InfraRecorder is a free CD/DVD burning solution for Microsoft Windows. ). If I were you I'd try a linux program. Look in your start menu.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > hope you don't do Windows updates, or use all those auto-updaters

    That is one of the main things I want to escape. I'm pretty good at
    disabling/blocking that kind of stuff, but the fact that it is there
    bugs me. Unfortunately, linux seems to offer little sactuary so far.
    Well at least in linux there is only one central updater, programs don't have permission (yes, that is enforced by the kernel, users basically dont have write permissions outside of their home directory) to auto-update themself, so theres only one auto updater you need to look after. (Oh and you can uninstall programs cleanly. Isnt that nice?)

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > Oh and downloads are signed so it doesnt really matter where you download from

    My problem isn't hidden features, viri, or bugs. My problem is with
    the blatant trojans that are labled 'features' and celebrated openly.
    "Our program AUTOMATICALLY connects your PC to OUR SERVERS!
    YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING!!!11!!1! Our program
    will AUTOMAGICALLY send your inform- I mean, user feedback to
    uS So wE cAn IMpRoVe OuR pRoDUct AnD iMpRovE yOuR usEr
    ExPerIenCe!!11!! dOn'T woRRy, wE pRomISe wE Won'T SpReAD
    yOUr dAta ArOuND teH iNteRweBS."
    Well better than if it isnt even labeled (see Windows, which is, as far as I recall, known to send SOMETHING to MS behind users back. And I dont mean the stuff that is sent during product activation.)
    But I havent ever experienced any of what you describe. I mean, yes, theres this auto updater, but I am relatively sure that it's always asked me before it began updating or tried to send some other info to the developers. (Crash reports, for example. Always optional. Windows has that button too, you know?)

    Oh and in all fairness I must add that while you might have valid points (auto updates without your permission? might be, I dont know), Ubuntu is, as a matter of fact, geared towards beginners and seems to aim to "just work". Lots of people *I know* would just press [X] on any popup they see (such as "Would you like to update?"). As far as I see, its still better than with Windows.

    And we are still offtopic.
    Of course it's unfair - that's the whole point.

    The Adom wiki: everything you don't want to know about Adom.
    http://ancardia.wikia.com/

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    I'm now leaning toward uninstalling ubuntu,
    as I don't think I can trust it.

    I'll maybe try a different linux distro, but I'll not try Mandriva.
    I saw a youtube vid of installing mandriva, and it spams you to
    'register your OS now!' during the actual install process...
    Try OpenSUSE. It comes in a DVD rather than a CD, and it contains everything you need without the need for getting anything from the internet. And as far as I can remember it doesn't ask you to register anything.

    In my opinion it also works much better than Ubuntu. The first versions of Ubuntu were really good but latter ones are quite unstable, they seem to be living off all the hype and advertising they got. Also the update policy is crazy, even the so-called "long term support" releases are not quite so long term and when they finish supporting a version they move or rename the repositories (why they do this beats me) so your apt-get no longer works and you have to google for a while to find out how to fix it.

    I'd recommend OpenSUSE over Ubuntu any day, both for beginners and advanced users.
    Last edited by Al-Khwarizmi; 08-08-2010 at 07:44 PM.

  5. #85
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    > And we are still offtopic.

    Nobody cares. We always go offtopic here, and I think the OT kinda
    played out already anyway.

    > last time I checked the first thing you do with your
    > new Windows install is "activate" it

    Nosir. I've had 3 win machines, and even re-installed OS's
    on 2 of them. No phone home to activate. Win also did not
    'check for updates' before I could disable it.

    > the vendor seems to think that such an autoupdater that shuts
    > up and just gets the job done is perfect... for beginners.

    Even beginners deserve a y/N option.

    > the packages on the CD can't be the absolutely newest packages,

    Don't need or want the newest packages. I like the stable older ones.

    > Also, would you prefer not to get so much updates,

    Prefer not to get any, but I'm changing a bit on that. It seems
    that many linux gurus, even the security obsessed ones have a
    more relaxed attitude than me about trusting linux distro vendors
    to freely access their PC's and do as they wish with them. The
    logic escapes me, but I suppose that I can tolerate it, just for
    learning purposes.

    > Still, what you just described sounds like a bug to me

    It occured to me that it was a bug as well, especially the second
    time.

    > I'd try opening it in the console.

    Next time I fire up the old desktop, I'll try it again.

    >> I tried DL'ing InfraRecord.

    > Because thats a windows-only program, as it says at the home page

    Whups, my bad. I got confused from watching nixie pixel's linux
    install vid:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhnLk...eature=related

    She used infrarecord to put ubuntu on disk, in Win7, as did I.
    Because it was a linux enthusiast vid, I naturally assumed all
    the proggies used would be available for linux as well. I never
    visited infraRecord's home page, only the sourceforge DL page,
    so never saw the limitation.

    > Well at least in linux there is only one central updater,
    > programs don't have permission

    That is very good news.

    > Ubuntu is, as a matter of fact, geared towards beginners

    Which is why I chose it, as I'm a beginner. I disagree with the
    mentality of 'former win users are lazy and like shiny things'.
    If that were true, we wouldn't be trying to switch. They really
    wanna to make win-switchers happy, I say include help vids on
    linux advantages, rather than duplicating win-flaws like 'aero'.

    > seems to aim to "just work".

    Can't complain there. A little help from a youtube 'how to' vid
    and I had a pain free ubuntu install.

    > would just press [X] on any popup they see (such as "Would you
    > like to update?").

    It's not even that bad. No popups, no nags, easy disable. The only
    problems I had were the initial 'check FOR updates' before
    I could disable, and the thing that I am now considering to be a
    bug about 'you updated just hours ago'. I think I will try ubuntu
    more, as I am still extremely impressed with how easy the install
    was.
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  6. #86
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    @openSUSE: I used it before Ubuntu and didn't like it. Mayor reasons were probably a) RPM and b) that they even more than Ubuntu focus on graphical configuration. Acceptable if it works, hurts when it breaks. Also I was very scared of updates because they tended to cause problems more often than not. (Usually the fscking proprietary nvidia driver, but other things too.). Your mileage might vary.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > last time I checked the first thing you do with your
    > new Windows install is "activate" it

    Nosir. I've had 3 win machines, and even re-installed OS's
    on 2 of them. No phone home to activate. Win also did not
    'check for updates' before I could disable it.
    Oh? Are you sure about the phone home thing, maybe it is just hidden?
    I just looked it up on Wikipedia and it says activation is required... (ok, you can use it before activation, but still...). Well maybe you are right, I don't know, I'm not much of a windows user, also I've never actually bought anything from Microsoft, so I don't know how the versions they give out via MSDNAA differ from the ones you buy in a store.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > the vendor seems to think that such an autoupdater that shuts
    > up and just gets the job done is perfect... for beginners.

    Even beginners deserve a y/N option.
    This is what I addressed later on, the part with "users just press the [X]". But maybe you are right; but then the problem is that clueless people are allowed to use computers. Sadly they are, and they do hit [X], so the question is: what do you propose how we deal with them? (For Linux its not much of problem right now because their is not much linux malware right now, but still...)

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > the packages on the CD can't be the absolutely newest packages,

    Don't need or want the newest packages. I like the stable older ones.
    Uh-huh, then Debian/stable might be just great for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > Also, would you prefer not to get so much updates,

    Prefer not to get any, but I'm changing a bit on that. It seems
    that many linux gurus, even the security obsessed ones have a
    more relaxed attitude than me about trusting linux distro vendors
    to freely access their PC's and do as they wish with them. The
    logic escapes me, but I suppose that I can tolerate it, just for
    learning purposes.
    Well I am split on this too -- I always do updates manually because I cant risk breaking things at the wrong time (especially on my desktop computer; like I said the server runs Debian/stable and so is unlikely to break because of an update).

    But as for the actual contents of those update, realistically there is nothing I can do to make sure the vendor doesnt give me something malicious, so I just trust them. The good track record of the Debian project helps. Contrary to that, I don't trust Microsoft at all, because they have a bad track record of screwing their customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > Ubuntu is, as a matter of fact, geared towards beginners

    Which is why I chose it, as I'm a beginner. I disagree with the
    mentality of 'former win users are lazy and like shiny things'.
    If that were true, we wouldn't be trying to switch. They really
    wanna to make win-switchers happy, I say include help vids on
    linux advantages, rather than duplicating win-flaws like 'aero'.
    I know people who very much fall into the category of "oh shiny". They want to use Linux because of its price tag and/or to show off.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    I think I will try ubuntu
    more, as I am still extremely impressed with how easy the install
    was.
    Gotcha.
    Of course it's unfair - that's the whole point.

    The Adom wiki: everything you don't want to know about Adom.
    http://ancardia.wikia.com/

  7. #87
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    I eagerly await gut's progress report one year from now
    ADOM Guides - whatever you wanted to know about playing a certain class, but have been afraid to ask!

    Check out my youtube channel to see my ADOM videos, including a completed playthrough of the game. I try to give instructions, so if you want to see some place you haven't been before and get some hints on how to deal with it, this might help! There's also some other games featured there that you might find interesting.

  8. #88
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    > Also, would you prefer not to get so much updates,

    Prefer not to get any, but I'm changing a bit on that. It seems
    that many linux gurus, even the security obsessed ones have a
    more relaxed attitude than me about trusting linux distro vendors
    to freely access their PC's and do as they wish with them. The
    logic escapes me, but I suppose that I can tolerate it, just for
    learning purposes.
    I hope no one assumes I am some linux guru. However, I can see the security threats of automatic updates. You are sharing with some "linux distro vendor" all the applications you are running on your machine and even asking if they have any changes they want to make to them. However, in a trusted community of linux developers where the code used is open source so if you were so paranoid you could review it yourself, it is an easier pill to swallow instead of Windows iron curtain of proprietary big brother bullshit.

    Try Debian/stable. Ubuntu is just Debian's linguistically skilled little brother anyways.
    I said it before, and I'll say it again. If I knew scripture like you, I'd prolly be an athiest too.. -gut

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  9. #89
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    > Are you sure about the phone home thing, maybe it is just hidden?

    100%. Installed and used the OS's for months without even having
    net access. I have only ever bought PC's that come pre-installed
    with win. I realize now they didn't come with standard win OS disks.
    Maybe MS has reason to believe all OEM install/recovery disks are
    purchased, so treats them differently.

    >> Lots of people *I know* would just press [X] on any popup they
    >> see (such as "Would you like to update?").

    You speak as though updates are a needed thing. I don't think they
    are. I'll try not to be too boring, but here's why I think this.
    Up until last year, I happily used a win98 (first edition), 300
    MHZ emachine. I kept NO antivirus software regularly
    installed for 12 years, though I would occasionally borrow a disk
    from a friend for testing. I never had a single virus. Getting
    virii is much more a 'user habits' thing than a 'lack of security
    updates' thing.

    > what do you propose how we deal with them?

    Really, to my mind, the question you ask translates to this 'how
    do we force users to update' or put a bit more gently 'how do we
    protect users from themselves'. To my paranoid/skeptical mind,
    this situation stems from the fact that users routinely give
    themselves pr0n or WaReZ virii, then call/clog tech support
    and loudly blame everything except the pr9n or themselves.

    My solution would be to treat adults like adults. Tell them once,
    I would even tolerate upon install, that some web sites and
    softwareZ such as pR0n/haxor/craxor are full of virii. If they
    plan to visit these sites and execute these WaREz, be prepared to
    be mercilessly spammed, trojaned, phished, and crashed for all
    eternity. Tell them that their only hope is regular updates and
    uber antivirus software. Make these features easy to access, and
    tell them how. Tell them, in any event, not to clog tech support
    lines with their pron-virii problems.

    Popups are the work of satan. I say design and advertise linux
    as the OS for grown-ups.

    Having said all above, ubuntu is better than a free thing has
    a right to be, and I feel stupid for complaining about it now.

    > realistically there is nothing I can do to make sure the vendor
    > doesnt give me something malicious, so I just trust them.

    On a scale of 1 - 10, I give that a 2.

    > The good track record of the Debian project helps.

    I'll give that an 8.

    > I don't trust Microsoft at all,

    I'll give that a 10.

    >> , as I am still extremely impressed with how easy the install was.

    > Gotcha

    I wouldn't say I'm hooked yet, but I will say very impressed. I read
    a bit before installing, about how many hardware manufactureres don't
    provide drivers for linux, so sometimes linux authors have to even
    reverse engineer them. I was prepared for a tedius process, yet it
    was easier than some win app installs. If they are that good
    in one area, they deserve the benefit of the doubt in others.

    > I eagerly await gut's progress report one year from now

    Too true. I use me laptop 99% of time, and it's still a win machine.
    I won't switch it over until I know what I'm doing

    > I hope no one assumes I am some linux guru.

    I wasn't referencing anyone specifically. Just stuff I picked up
    from leeching some linux help sites. Seems that sysadmins all over
    (even google if memory serves) just trust linux update servers to
    not misbehave. I don't believe it is the nature of man to not
    misbehave, but I don't have sensitive data in general, and certainly
    none on me desktop, so for now I'll go with the flow.

    > the code used is open source so

    I'll give that one only a 6, as I'm not sure the update code is
    open source. Is it? If it is, and there is already a standardised
    way of self-policing it, I'll happily give it a 10.
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  10. #90
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    Accidentally got adom to run through the terminal. Dragged the adom
    icon to the terminal and it gave me the command I needed.

    Lessons learned along the way:
    'cd downloads' isn't the same as 'cd Downloads' (actually knew that one, but forgot)
    'cd..' isn't the same as 'cd ..'
    'cd downloads' + 'cd adom' + 'adom' isn't the same as 'home/w/downloads/adom/adom'


    Ubuntu impressed me again, twice. First, I unplugged my wireless usb
    mouse transmitter from my laptop and tried it in the desktop on a whim.
    Worked immediately. Second, I timed Ubuntu's boot time. From power on
    to desktop took 30 seconds, same system boots vista in 60.
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

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