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Thread: What, exactly, do I need to do?

  1. #1

    Default What, exactly, do I need to do?

    So I'm a level 23 Gnomish Wizard. I killed Kranach, retrieved a cute puppy corpse (damn thing died on the way out), killed Keethrax, and slaughtered Hotzenplotz with his guards and the Mad Doctor.

    I've finished all of Thrundarr's quests, including the Dwarven Graveyard one. I've almost cleared the Bug Temple but I'm having problems in the last room. I've finished the pyramid.

    Here's a list of what I get from Revelation (I drank from pools a lot and really lucked out with some stuff for this PC):

    Your are fire resistance (enhanced through an item).
    You are poison resistant.
    You are cold resistant (enhanced through an item).
    You are acid resistant.
    You are lucky (gained through an item).
    Fate smiles upon you (gained through an item).
    You are cursed.
    You are sleep resistant.
    You are petrification resistant.
    You are able to control teleportation.
    You are stun resistant.
    You are paralyzation resistant.
    You are resistant to death rays.
    You are shock resistant (gained through an item).
    You are able to see invisible things.
    You are immune to ice attacks (gained through an item).
    You are able to resist confusion attacks (gained through an item).

    I'm extremely happy with these intrinsics, especially since it won't be hard to get rid of the "cursed" part. This character feels like he's going somewhere.

    Here's what I'm wearing:

    Blessed Helm of Mental Stability
    Blessed Ankh
    Blessed Adamantium Scale Mail (actually damaged, though, so pretty poor)
    Leather Cloak
    Blessed Scorched Spear
    Blessed Medium Crystal Shield
    Blessed Ring of Damage
    Blessed Ring of Protection
    Blessed Elemental Gauntlets
    Uncursed Leather Boots

    My spell list:

    Calm Monster - 708
    Cure Disease - 526
    Cure Light Wounds - 1034
    Cure Serious Wounds - 296
    Darkness - 1974
    Fire Bolt - 417
    Frost Bolt - 626
    Greater Identify - 640
    Ice Ball - 13
    Identify - 596
    Invisibility - 759
    Knock - 810
    Know Alignment - 854
    Light - 1149
    Lightning Bolt - 321
    Magic Lock - 1809
    Magic Map - 652
    Magic Missile - 1135
    Mystic Shovel - 621
    Remove Curse - 1234
    Revelation - 489
    Slow Monster - 280
    Slow Poison - 980
    Strength of Atlas - 864
    Stun Ray - 565
    Teleportation - 477
    Web - 904

    My stats:

    St: 15
    Le: 23
    Wi: 17
    Dx: 10
    To: 12
    Ch: 17
    Ap: 9
    Ma: 35
    Pe: 14


    I've looked through the guidebook, a lot. But I need to know in a clear format what I need to do to get an ultra ending. I don't want to close the Chaos Gate and end it. Just a good guide, telling me what to do, and, preferably, around what time/level.

    Any tips on what I should do next? Things I should acquire? When to do this?

    I know the main points of an ultra ending, but a concise summary would be greatly appreciated.

    Much is new to me, I've only closed the gate once, so a "walkthrough" of sorts would be wonderful.
    Last edited by Druidus-Logos; 03-17-2012 at 12:55 AM.

  2. #2
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    First of all, gather morgia and raise your toughness. Toughness 12 is extremely low.

    Next, focus on getting a wish for your amulet of life saving. This is the main challenge in finishing an ultra..
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

    Robbing BugCave with a banshee.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by grobblewobble View Post
    First of all, gather morgia and raise your toughness. Toughness 12 is extremely low.

    Next, focus on getting a wish for your amulet of life saving. This is the main challenge in finishing an ultra..
    Sorry, should have also said that I found one already, so Khelevaster will be fine.

  4. #4
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    Great!

    How far are you with the items for the Witch? Did you satisfy the ratling yet? What flavour of ultra are you aiming at?
    Last edited by grobblewobble; 03-16-2012 at 08:59 PM.
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

    Robbing BugCave with a banshee.

  5. #5
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    You can get a walkthrough of sorts on the ADOM wiki found at ancardia.wikia.com. But while we're at it, the most important bit: Do you know your first kill?

    Equally important: Did you get crowned? Do not get crowned.

    Everything else is fixable. You have to be chaotic for a while to get Gaab'Baay's quests done, so I'd do that quickly.

    Do you have access to the HMV? Have you entered the SMC at all? If no on both counts, get magic mapping, enter the SMC invisible, find the stairs, teleport there to go down and do not pick any fights. Rest of the UD should be easy.

    1. Collect six artifacts that you can do without. Moon Sickle, phial of Caladrial, Big Punch, crown of science, ancient mummy wrapping (this one is pretty good otherwise, but your godly list of intrinsics made it obsolete), black torc - nothing painful in there if you ask me. If you have something even more useless than any of these, get rid of that. Feed them to the ratling while you are chaotic. Preferably get Gaab'Baay's quest first, but I'm saying that 'cause I don't remember if you need the quest for the artifacts to count.
    2. Wand of monster creation. That one is easy, except if you're planning an ultra, since the game refuses the drop it. It's telepathytrolling or some shit.
    3. Scroll of danger. Pretty rare.
    4. Potion of cure corruption. You can get one from the black druid corpse or any orb guardian corpse, if you bring them to the Druid. While non-chaotic.
    5. Giant boar skull. Step one: Find and kill giant boar. Step two: Pick up skull. If there is none, repeat step one until there is.
    6. Farmer corpse. If there's a farmer in the HMV, kill it. If not, try to lure a villager from Terinyo somewhere. Report back if that fails.

    Do all that and you have the medal of chaos. Stash it. Do not get crowned chaotic yet, but you can get crowned neutral or lawful now if you want. This can be done anytime, but getting crowned is pretty nice and changing alignment is a bitch later. However, you might need the Casino to find some of the items, so you might have to do the Tower first (which you can, if you get some HP like grobble said.)

    Crown of chaos is nothing you can mess up except by dying. Just enter the stone circle on the eve of the 60th, 90th, 120th day and so forth and bring your magic missiles. GET SOME HP FIRST.

    Trident of the Red Rooster: You start by doing Sharad-Waador's quest. I think you might need Needle too, it's in the stash you get as a reward. Then you go to the Assassin Prince's lair, do not piss him off, and chat to get the quest to kill Filk. (Need to be level 45.) Then you go to the ID to whichever level corresponds with the number of first kill monsters you killed, and kill Filk. (One ball spell and he's toast.) Then you go the mad minstrel, he tells you the location of a cave. Then you go to the cave and kill the emperor moloch. Then you get the crumpled scroll to Khelavaster and give it to him while NOT chaotic. Done.
    Last edited by Silfir; 03-16-2012 at 09:06 PM.
    ADOM Guides - whatever you wanted to know about playing a certain class, but have been afraid to ask!

    Check out my youtube channel to see my ADOM videos, including a completed playthrough of the game. I try to give instructions, so if you want to see some place you haven't been before and get some hints on how to deal with it, this might help! There's also some other games featured there that you might find interesting.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    You can get a walkthrough of sorts on the ADOM wiki found at ancardia.wikia.com. But while we're at it, the most important bit: Do you know your first kill?
    Thanks for the site. And yeah, I recorded my first kill. It was a raider. Not too bad, I haven't encountered a lot of them, but I'll still have to go kind of deep.

    Equally important: Did you get crowned? Do not get crowned.
    Not yet.

    Everything else is fixable. You have to be chaotic for a while to get Gaab'Baay's quests done, so I'd do that quickly.
    I am chaotic right now, I did it to start feeding the DR a little.

    Do you have access to the HMV? Have you entered the SMC at all? If no on both counts, get magic mapping, enter the SMC invisible, find the stairs, teleport there to go down and do not pick any fights. Rest of the UD should be easy.
    I'm on my way there to get Hawkslayer and level him up just now.

    1. Collect six artifacts that you can do without. Moon Sickle, phial of Caladrial, Big Punch, crown of science, ancient mummy wrapping (this one is pretty good otherwise, but your godly list of intrinsics made it obsolete), black torc - nothing painful in there if you ask me. If you have something even more useless than any of these, get rid of that. Feed them to the ratling while you are chaotic. Preferably get Gaab'Baay's quest first, but I'm saying that 'cause I don't remember if you need the quest for the artifacts to count.
    Shit, I didn't get Gaab'Baay's quest yet, and I'm one artifact away from six; I hope I haven't screwed it up.

    2. Wand of monster creation. That one is easy, except if you're planning an ultra, since the game refuses the drop it. It's telepathytrolling or some shit.
    LOL, yeah I know what you mean. That said, I do have one.

    3. Scroll of danger. Pretty rare.
    Don't have this yet.

    4. Potion of cure corruption. You can get one from the black druid corpse or any orb guardian corpse, if you bring them to the Druid. While non-chaotic.
    I've got a couple stashed in the Barbarian's Glade.

    5. Giant boar skull. Step one: Find and kill giant boar. Step two: Pick up skull. If there is none, repeat step one until there is.
    I've got this too, by lucky chance.

    6. Farmer corpse. If there's a farmer in the HMV, kill it. If not, try to lure a villager from Terinyo somewhere. Report back if that fails.
    Don't have it yet, but it shouldn't be too hard.

    Do all that and you have the medal of chaos. Stash it. Do not get crowned chaotic yet, but you can get crowned neutral or lawful now if you want. This can be done anytime, but getting crowned is pretty nice and changing alignment is a bitch later. However, you might need the Casino to find some of the items, so you might have to do the Tower first (which you can, if you get some HP like grobble said.)
    The flaming tower?

    Crown of chaos is nothing you can mess up except by dying. Just enter the stone circle on the eve of the 60th, 90th, 120th day and so forth and bring your magic missiles. GET SOME HP FIRST.
    Will do, I know my toughness is low. What are some efficient and timely methods of this kind of stat promotion?

    Trident of the Red Rooster: You start by doing Sharad-Waador's quest. I think you might need Needle too, it's in the stash you get as a reward. Then you go to the Assassin Prince's lair, do not piss him off, and chat to get the quest to kill Filk. (Need to be level 45.) Then you go to the ID to whichever level corresponds with the number of first kill monsters you killed, and kill Filk. (One ball spell and he's toast.) Then you go the mad minstrel, he tells you the location of a cave. Then you go to the cave and kill the emperor moloch. Then you get the crumpled scroll to Khelavaster and give it to him while NOT chaotic. Done.
    Thanks for that, very concise!

    Great!
    lol, thanks, this is one of my better characters.

    How far are you with the items for the Witch? Did you satisfy the ratling yet? What flavour of ultra are you aiming at?
    I outlined the witch's items up above, and I have one more artifact to give to the ratling. I haven't gotten the quest from the witch yet, though. I'm thinking Ultimate Chaos God, although I'd be open to any of the endings. Which is better, in terms of the ending messages? Which is easiest? Why? This is my first attempt, so I don't really know much.

    I need to find more morgia herb bushes. Other than that, what are some ways to train toughness?

  7. #7

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    I also desperately need more ball spells, I'm almost completely out. I've only had one, Ice Ball, this entire game. I explored some forty levels or so of the ID trying to find more spellbooks, but they stubbornly wouldn't generate.

    How can I raise my willpower, also? I'd like to increase ball explosion range, and isn't willpower what you need for the Rift? The library would really get me the spells I need.

    Also, I do need to find some more corruption mitigation items... I've already got Tough Skin and Mana Battery. Is that a lot for lvl. 23, relatively? I don't remember what my last character had.

    Edit: Dammit, I just got to the HMV and realized that I can't get Hawkslayer while chaotic. I wish I hadn't forgotten that, what a waste of time...

    I just hope I haven't screwed anything up yet, and that I continue not to. It'd really suck to die now, I highly doubt the possibility of a recurrence of the acquisition of such intrinsics with a new character. Such promise! I wouldn't even actually be doing this, save for the fact that when I loaded up ADOM for the first time in 4-6 months I found a 4th level wizard with the scorched spear and a few handy resistances and simply felt the need to pursue an ending for the character in limbo. Then, when I drank from more pools and found a couple very useful corpses, and ended up with all the resistances and other intrinsics that I have now, well, that was all just an amazing bonus...

    I don't want to jinx the attempt, but I'm actually very excited by this character.
    Last edited by Druidus-Logos; 03-17-2012 at 01:04 AM.

  8. #8
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    The flaming tower?
    Indeed

    Which is better, in terms of the ending messages?
    ULE and UNE: you become an avatar of your alignment and after a thousand years, you rise to the position of demi-god to protect Ancardia from cross-aligned forces forever.
    UCG: you become the ultimate chaos god, completely slaughter your opposition and take over Ancardia and the whole universe with your vile forces of corruption. In the process you realize you've lost something very important - home. <- Spoiler, highlight if you want to read.

    I also desperately need more ball spells, I'm almost completely out. I've only had one, Ice Ball, this entire game. I explored some forty levels or so of the ID trying to find more spellbooks, but they stubbornly wouldn't generate.
    With my wizards, I usually take the bookcasting talents early in the game. If I'm fortunate to find ball spells, I wait until I can get 100+ castings from reading them. After that, they're always bookcast, usually when I'm surrounded and in Coward tactics. This continues until around the casino, where I'll often have multiple books of all -foo- Ball spells and high Learning. After this point, I take the shortcut to the surface, go to the wilderness, wear the CoS, and read the books to death.

    Also, I do need to find some more corruption mitigation items... I've already got Tough Skin and Mana Battery. Is that a lot for lvl. 23, relatively? I don't remember what my last character had.
    Tough scales give a nice PV bonus. The Dexterity reduction isn't low, but can actually end up being a benefit with enough mosses of mareillon - artificially lowered stats can be herb-trained beyond the 25-points cap.

    Mana battery can yield a few extra PPs if you drain useless wands, but overall it's one of the corruptions I'd remove as soon as possible. You can use a PoCC of the stack you've stashed, as the old crone only needs one. If you decide to keep it, wands you don't wish to discharge can be put in the missile slot and 't'hrown at a safe storage place. This won't drain them (probably a bug).

    I just hope I haven't screwed anything up yet, and that I continue not to. It'd really suck to die now, I highly doubt the possibility of a recurrence of the acquisition of such intrinsics with a new character. Such promise!
    Indeed you got very lucky with the pools, that's a neat selection of intrinsics. I was never so fortunate, which is why I don't bother with pools at all, except when I'm about to Shift+Q a character. Although I did once get two wishes in a row with a July 2nd PC.

    Will do, I know my toughness is low. What are some efficient and timely methods of this kind of stat promotion?
    ...
    I need to find more morgia herb bushes. Other than that, what are some ways to train toughness?
    ...
    How can I raise my willpower, also? I'd like to increase ball explosion range, and isn't willpower what you need for the Rift?
    I used to just pick herbs to death and use whatever I got my hands on sparingly, but I hope your "need to find" doesn't mean you've made the same mistake in the herb-supporting levels you've generated for this game. On my last "serious" PC, I actually read what the guidebook has to say about farming herbs, and it's really worth it. The extra stat training and stomafillia are very nice. Curaria mancox and the healing herbs are also useful. Wizards start with Herbalism, which will help you pick more herbs and let you know when a bush is close to dying. With 2x2 squares formed at the top or bottom of the Big Room, you can afford picking up to one bush to death - it'll respawn in the following generation. You will however want to pacify the room, as spider/wolf/jackal factories tend to go nuts with frustrating frequency. The wiki has an article about this.

    Anyway, ways to train Wi and To other than herbs include:
    • Willpower: Garth, the dwarven weaponmaster in Dwarftown. He'll train any stat other than Ap and Ma for a fee. The amount of training you get depends on how much you pay. Stats that are pretty low (such as your current To) will be increased by small payments of 1000-2000gp, but then the numbers begin growing exponentially. Managing to cast spells while confused/stunned also trains it a tiny bit, but don't rely on this.
    • Toughness: Garth. Eating greater undead (all Z and G monsters) will increase your To by one. Just like with herbs, this is guaranteed up to a certain point. It does however decrease your alignment - keep an eye in the status bar. Also, those corpses are pretty rare to begin with, you can clear GY:1 and not find a single one. The corpses of swamp hydras and both kinds of hill orcs also train To when eaten. With orcs you may need many corpses, but I hear the training from hydras is rather high.


    The Rift demands having Climbing at 100, level 18 and Wi over 20 (or Pe below 6), so Willpower is no problem once you have enough morgia. Climbing can be trained with Yergius or by running in the mountains if it's not maxed out, although the latter method eats a lot of game time. Anyway, I wouldn't exactly rush this. The rift and library are both high-DL areas with monsters of matching difficulty.
    "And light there be!"

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by anon123 View Post
    Indeed
    Alright, ToEF it is, as soon as my HP and To are increased.



    ULE and UNE: you become an avatar of your alignment and after a thousand years, you rise to the position of demi-god to protect Ancardia from cross-aligned forces forever.
    UCG: you become the ultimate chaos god, completely slaughter your opposition and take over Ancardia and the whole universe with your vile forces of corruption. In the process you realize you've lost something very important - home. <- Spoiler, highlight if you want to read.
    Thanks!


    With my wizards, I usually take the bookcasting talents early in the game. If I'm fortunate to find ball spells, I wait until I can get 100+ castings from reading them. After that, they're always bookcast, usually when I'm surrounded and in Coward tactics. This continues until around the casino, where I'll often have multiple books of all -foo- Ball spells and high Learning. After this point, I take the shortcut to the surface, go to the wilderness, wear the CoS, and read the books to death.
    I rarely, if ever, bookcast. Not sure why. Still, even if I had those Talents, I'm at a loss for suitable books. I'll just have to hope a few more will appear.


    Tough scales give a nice PV bonus. The Dexterity reduction isn't low, but can actually end up being a benefit with enough mosses of mareillon - artificially lowered stats can be herb-trained beyond the 25-points cap.
    Yeah, I don't really mind that corruption at all.

    Mana battery can yield a few extra PPs if you drain useless wands, but overall it's one of the corruptions I'd remove as soon as possible. You can use a PoCC of the stack you've stashed, as the old crone only needs one. If you decide to keep it, wands you don't wish to discharge can be put in the missile slot and 't'hrown at a safe storage place. This won't drain them (probably a bug).
    Most definitely don't appreciate this one... Will remove it ASAP.



    Indeed you got very lucky with the pools, that's a neat selection of intrinsics. I was never so fortunate, which is why I don't bother with pools at all, except when I'm about to Shift+Q a character. Although I did once get two wishes in a row with a July 2nd PC.
    I know, I'm very pleased with it. I think I'm only missing shock res and confusion res, of the natural resistances.

    Two wishes in a row sounds nice, lol. I wish I'd gotten a single wish, so far, but, hey, why push my luck, I'm already doing ok! Still, some nicer armour, 7LB, or something else similar would be just fine with me.



    I used to just pick herbs to death and use whatever I got my hands on sparingly, but I hope your "need to find" doesn't mean you've made the same mistake in the herb-supporting levels you've generated for this game. On my last "serious" PC, I actually read what the guidebook has to say about farming herbs, and it's really worth it. The extra stat training and stomafillia are very nice. Curaria mancox and the healing herbs are also useful. Wizards start with Herbalism, which will help you pick more herbs and let you know when a bush is close to dying. With 2x2 squares formed at the top or bottom of the Big Room, you can afford picking up to one bush to death - it'll respawn in the following generation. You will however want to pacify the room, as spider/wolf/jackal factories tend to go nuts with frustrating frequency. The wiki has an article about this.
    I read once about a way to make lots of doors to Magic Lock in the Big Room, forming a little prison for the monsters that spawn, allowing free gardening. I'll probably try to replicate this. I have 100 herbalism and my gardening is also quite high, so even though I used up a lot of the good herbs in the manner you indicated I shouldn't, I will be able to plant a decent garden for myself. As long as I can find enough seeds.

    Anyway, ways to train Wi and To other than herbs include:
    • Willpower: Garth, the dwarven weaponmaster in Dwarftown. He'll train any stat other than Ap and Ma for a fee. The amount of training you get depends on how much you pay. Stats that are pretty low (such as your current To) will be increased by small payments of 1000-2000gp, but then the numbers begin growing exponentially. Managing to cast spells while confused/stunned also trains it a tiny bit, but don't rely on this.
    • Toughness: Garth. Eating greater undead (all Z and G monsters) will increase your To by one. Just like with herbs, this is guaranteed up to a certain point. It does however decrease your alignment - keep an eye in the status bar. Also, those corpses are pretty rare to begin with, you can clear GY:1 and not find a single one. The corpses of swamp hydras and both kinds of hill orcs also train To when eaten. With orcs you may need many corpses, but I hear the training from hydras is rather high.
    I thought that'd be the only way. Can I artificially lower my stats so that he increases them for cheaper? If so, how?

    The Rift demands having Climbing at 100, level 18 and Wi over 20 (or Pe below 6), so Willpower is no problem once you have enough morgia. Climbing can be trained with Yergius or by running in the mountains if it's not maxed out, although the latter method eats a lot of game time. Anyway, I wouldn't exactly rush this. The rift and library are both high-DL areas with monsters of matching difficulty.
    Yeah, it's a pretty hard place, IIRC. I was there once or twice a long time ago. You're right, I'll need to be careful and well supplied before I try to go there with this character. I will have to train climbing for a few more levels, anyway, to get to 100.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Druidus-Logos View Post
    I rarely, if ever, bookcast. Not sure why.
    I also usually never bookcasted, until I saw the benefits. If you manage to start with, or find Teleportation, Remove Curse or Strength of Atlas in the early game, for example, being able to bookcast those with reduced costs will make your life easier - and can often save it. You'll also train some Mana in the process.

    Still, even if I had those Talents, I'm at a loss for suitable books. I'll just have to hope a few more will appear.
    Trekking the first levels of the ID over and over will yield many books for a wizard, although it might be somewhat boring. I usually start the game in the ID to gain some levels and acquire items, so for me it synergizes with early preparation. You can get a lot of books this way, and I exit the dungeon with at least one ball spell more often than not.

    I know, I'm very pleased with it. I think I'm only missing shock res and confusion res, of the natural resistances.
    The corpses of any kind of blue dragon will provide shock resistance. Hence you have a guaranteed source in the blue dragon caves, which are (logically enough) filled with those You might even acquire shock immunity there, if the RNG is in your side - having Food preservation at 100 would help.

    Non-artifacts that grant your last missing resistance, confusion, are helms and rings of mental stability, and rings of the clear mind. Many non-guaranteed artifacts also provide it. High Willpower further acts as resistance against monsters' confusion attacks.

    Two wishes in a row sounds nice, lol. I wish I'd gotten a single wish, so far, but, hey, why push my luck, I'm already doing ok! Still, some nicer armour, 7LB, or something else similar would be just fine with me.
    Thank you. Sadly an eternium plate mail and dual-wielded eternium tower shields couldn't save that PC from an early death Also, you still have a lot of the game waiting to be played. Who's to say you won't get a wish there?

    If you want nice armor, you can raid Darkforge in hopes of having better luck than I usually do, and finding dragon scale mail there. A red one would be nice for the ToEF. This is assuming you haven't already done it, obviously.

    I read once about a way to make lots of doors to Magic Lock in the Big Room, forming a little prison for the monsters that spawn, allowing free gardening. I'll probably try to replicate this. I have 100 herbalism and my gardening is also quite high, so even though I used up a lot of the good herbs in the manner you indicated I shouldn't, I will be able to plant a decent garden for myself. As long as I can find enough seeds.
    You can use the door method, or you can dig a tunnel behind the walls, lock a breeder there, wait until there's 40 of them, then kill everyone else and proceed with your business. The wiki article explains all known methods in detail.

    It's good that you have Gardening - I never used that, although I do know about the problem non-Rangers have finding herb seeds. Try buying Munxip's shop out repeatedly until he generates some. For the PC I mentioned, I was lucky enough to have bushes generated in a favorable layout that ended up giving lots of morgia and mareillon. Not wanting to create anything more complex than 2x2 squares so far, I killed the excess ones, then slowly picked a few herbs per bush (taking note of their status to avoid destroying the formations), did other random stuff until the following generation - rinse and repeat.

    I thought that'd be the only way. Can I artificially lower my stats so that he increases them for cheaper? If so, how?
    Starvation and sickness are the methods usually employed for this. Starvation can be achieved by eating stomacemptia herbs (cursed ones work best), or simply not feeding your character. It will immediately drop your Strength, and as some turns pass, the first four attributes displayed in the status bar (St, Le, Wi and Dx) will also decrease. You're not in danger as long as the values are decreasing, but when they reach half the original figures, your PC is near-death and should feed him/herself. This is the part when you munch on some morgia and/or rub some mareillon (I think this method doesn't work with Garth as he'll ask you to eat instead of training you).

    Sickness can be achieved by eating a devil's rose, certain corpses (most commonly all kobolds), or a potion of sickness. It'll decrease all your attributes except To and Ma by 2, and reduce To by 5. So, sicken yourself, use herbs or train with the dwarf, cure your sickness, wait for your stats to increase, and repeat the cycle. If you used a lot of herbs or gave the dwarf a high amount of money, you may get more than one stat increase from it - wait those out before repeating the method.

    Yeah, it's a pretty hard place, IIRC. I was there once or twice a long time ago. You're right, I'll need to be careful and well supplied before I try to go there with this character. I will have to train climbing for a few more levels, anyway, to get to 100.
    Also remember to leave all the valuable items you don't think you'll need behind, before climbing. The RNG will usually pick your best equipment to destroy it.
    "And light there be!"

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