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Thread: Planning an Ultra on Elven Wizard

  1. #1
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    Default Planning an Ultra on Elven Wizard

    Since I've already completed the game on multiple characters without save scumming, I would like to give ultra ending a try.

    My chosen char is Grey Elven Wizard, since it's a relatively easy char for early game when using the bug temple as initial leveling ground - I safely get to lvl 12 or 13, get 50 HP, 150 PP and then off for a session of stairhopping in ID to get the necessary spellbooks (SoA, knock, some offensive spells, invis, tele, heal, maybe acid ball) and some initial gear.
    I usually emerge with most of the desired spells at 500-1000 charges and Le & Ma stats anywhere between 25-30.

    Now normally I have no problems doing all the surface and Thrundarr's quests, but the first real problem is saving Khelavaster.
    I just can't seem to get a wish or find the amulet outright, and am either forced to forfeit his life or go for a grinding session and hope for random loot, but where?
    ID? would have to descend to lvl 20 or 24 to match the danger level and even then randomly getting it is a tedious process.
    DF is of course cleared, pools sipped (last three games I had not a single wish from a pool, despite finding at least 4 outside of DF).
    Bug temple interior not yet touched, RotHK in my backpack, pyramid cleared, dwarven graveyard cleared, fire temple done.
    This is usually when I'm supposed to go deeper into CoC. I don't have a char at this stage yet, but this is a typical line of progression for 99% of my wizards.
    I also have 7LB at this point, usually from one of the vaults, I am of lawful alignment, around lvl 20, lots of holy water, deity is at extremely close but plenty of artifacts already found, mostly guaranteed ones, make me ineligible for precrowning.
    Last char died after casting too many fireballs in the animated forest and subsequently getting vanquished by an uber tree.
    One before that fell down some stairs in ID while very strained and broke a neck.
    Yet another char met an early end when I accidentally meleed ogre king around DH2.

    So all in all, my deaths usually result from my own carelessness and stupidity rather than the general RNG's maliciousness, and mostly in the early-to-mid game (there was one late game accident when SoA ended while I was doing w5 waiting for herbs to regrow and got crushed by luggage, a lesson I learned). But if I'm able to overcome them by being more patient and careful, I should be ok (as in the RNG doesn't seem to give a damn about me either way). I usually get 1-2 RoDS later in the game, around casino and greater vaults, as well as a wand of wishing, mostly around Blue Dragon Caves, but that happens in games when I actually let Khelly die and just move on for a normal gate closing.

    I will roll another char soon and get to that stage when I have to save Khelly, then post a log.
    As for the rest of the journey to ultra ending, I know the drill, I finished the game that way multiple times cheating but I want this one to be legit.

    So, how do I get that damn amulet of life saving? Gremlin bomb is a viable option but rather tedious. Considering I don't care about real-life or game-time constraints and don't mind using some of the scummy techniques, what additional advises would you give me?
    Last edited by Blasphemous; 04-25-2012 at 12:38 PM.
    "Hell is empty and all the devils are here."

  2. #2
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    This is what I would do:

    1. Start new character.
    2. Prepare for pool sipping ASAP.
    3. Sip DF pools.
    4. If wish, finish game. Else, goto 1.

    Alternatively, IIRC Soirana advised someone to get the spellbook of wish from the library, dive into the ID until you find molochs / titans, gain level 50 from them and then wait for silvernight. According to him this allows you to hardcast a wish. I never tried this myself, though, and I'm not 100 % sure I explained it correctly.
    Last edited by grobblewobble; 04-25-2012 at 12:49 PM.
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasphemous View Post
    I just can't seem to get a wish or find the amulet outright, and am either forced to forfeit his life or go for a grinding session and hope for random loot, but where?
    ID? would have to descend to lvl 20 or 24 to match the danger level and even then randomly getting it is a tedious process.
    You're thinking of a RoDS, which even then can only be found on I24 onwards. Amulets of life saving are DL2, so the optimal zone is between I6 to I8, and I've found a few there during my games. Pickpocketing helps, but it's always a matter of patience and luck. You also said you cleared the dwarven graveyard, any chances you've done some gravedigging there? If not, that's also an option. Just bring a whip which you will use when your alignment drops to LN. There's also dipping junk rings in blessed PoEXs on D:8. Or you can dip "safe" amulets in a PoRC on D:2 for that 1% chance of getting what you want...
    "And light there be!"

  4. #4
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    Of course ring dipping on D8 is viable, I just never seem to have enough potions of exchange to get the rods. At least not until getting banshee to the animated forest.
    As for the amulet of life saving, I seriously though it was DL7-8, hmmm there might be a chance to get one if I decided to gather some potions of water in ID, they also have danger level of 2.
    Gravedigging is a must, but I only dig the "great treasuries are buried here" graves, this ensures the best possible random loot and minimal alignment drop.
    Whip is my usually means of getting to L+, in time before dwarftown so the altar there is generated lawful too.
    In practice I find all kinds of altars here and there so conversion to any alignment at this stage of the game is not a problem.

    That idea with forge pools asap and then new game seems like a nice one, my new char I just stared got lvl 13 already, lightning bolt and teleport spells onboard, just need a blink dog corpse or amulet/ring of Tctrl and I'm off to pool sipping.
    "Hell is empty and all the devils are here."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasphemous View Post
    Of course ring dipping on D8 is viable, I just never seem to have enough potions of exchange to get the rods. At least not until getting banshee to the animated forest.
    As for the amulet of life saving, I seriously though it was DL7-8, hmmm there might be a chance to get one if I decided to gather some potions of water in ID, they also have danger level of 2.
    Gravedigging is a must, but I only dig the "great treasuries are buried here" graves, this ensures the best possible random loot and minimal alignment drop.
    Whip is my usually means of getting to L+, in time before dwarftown so the altar there is generated lawful too.
    In practice I find all kinds of altars here and there so conversion to any alignment at this stage of the game is not a problem.

    That idea with forge pools asap and then new game seems like a nice one, my new char I just stared got lvl 13 already, lightning bolt and teleport spells onboard, just need a blink dog corpse or amulet/ring of Tctrl and I'm off to pool sipping.
    You can also dip amulets into raw chaos pots on DL2. Although success chance is lower than <1%.
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  6. #6
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    Success! Got a wish in darkforge. Although only 6 pools were available, I got 1 wish, perma invis, +lucky +fate, stun, cold and acid resistances. One stat increase too.
    Few negative effects, mostly snakes, one elemental that rusted half of my equipment, +doom and a few sips later -doom. Pretty good, let the Ultra attempt begin.
    "Hell is empty and all the devils are here."

  7. #7
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    For ultras, I normally only go for it when the RNG tells me I'm supposed to. If I find an RoDS or some other wish before Khelly, fine, I'll save him (assuming I don't need the wish for something better). If not, I'll just go for a regular win. Trying to force it often ends up wasting a lot of time and can screw up your character. The pool-reroll method isn't honestly terrible though. It's probably much more efficient than trying to get it by stairhopping or grinding.

    Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've found ring dipping to be surprisingly reliable. Usually 4-5 PoEX is enough for a decent shot at it.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  8. #8
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    Wow RNG has a sense of humor. AoLS is being sold in the HMV shop now... so now I have two amulets instead of an amulet and for example 7LB.

    As for PoEX, I made extensive testing some time ago, for my own purposes: sometimes I got rods 3 times in 10 dips, sometimes 100 dips is not enough to it once, but on average I guess 20-25 dips almost ensure success.

    Edit: Khelly saved, time for the Banshee to talk the animated trees to death.

    What should I do to be extra careful? I feel like I almost won already, I'm being careless and it might and probably will kill me soon. Just moments before saving the dying sage, I entered a tension room full of titans in DH2. Lucky for me, my stealth skill was almost at 100 and only 2 of them noticed me and started moving, but no quarrels flew at me. I teleported out unharmed, but it was close.
    Last edited by Blasphemous; 04-25-2012 at 04:44 PM.
    "Hell is empty and all the devils are here."

  9. #9
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    Here's some generic wizard advice. I'm sure you know most of this already though...

    Morgia enhance your toughness and willpower as high as you can (I normally shoot for 31 or 32 To, but high 20s is good enough). That's probably the most important thing, honestly... You're a wizard, so you should be able to avoid most of the worst dangers otherwise. Bolting through invisible doesn't trigger monsters, but ball/burning hands does, so you can kill ~95 percent of monsters safely if you bolt. Mind your carrying capacity if you use SoA (honestly, probably better just to avoid SoA and not be a packrat, IMHO). Use melee sparingly--nothing wrong with dual shields on coward if you've got lots of spells to burn through, especially in more dangerous areas. If you haven't maxed alchemy yet, I'd put that as a priority if you want to do the banshee thing. You should be able to get some PoGA ingredients out of that. Use disablers against the Wyrm and Archmage and other casters since you don't have alertness. When all else fails, spam acid ball. Oh, and don't be afraid to HPcast. PP regeneration is too slow in the endgame to be useful. You can HPcast healing spells fairly efficiently to get your health back if you need to. Uh... make sure you have death ray resistance installed for key areas. Ditto for para resist.

    For ultras specifically... well, be careful when praying if you've got the right alignment and high piety. If you need healing and pray, your god will crown you, for example (which does give full health). Be sure to actually talk to the AKW before doing his quest. It's stupid, but I've had, and I've seen a number of other people who have had, ultras missed because of something like that. Be sure to have see invisibility on any time you visit Terinyo. Nothing worse than accidentally bumping into Khelly while you're going to visit Blup for the RCT or something. For ULE, you should have mountains of corruption removal. Get rid of any corruptions you don't like as you need to. Read the crumpled scroll when you find it. In the unlikely event that it gets destroyed, if you've read it, you can make it again with a writing set.

    RoDS have a 4.5-5 percent chance per dip on D:8, IIRC. That seems fairly consistent with your trials.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  10. #10
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    Isn't there a bug that makes the game crash sometimes at the moment you save the sage? Better make a backup before you do it. Oh wait.. you already did that. Err, the banshee luring thing might be a tad risky without 7LB..

    A single PoE is about equal to a single pool, if I'm not mistaken. Both are good for about 5% chance.
    Last edited by grobblewobble; 04-25-2012 at 06:44 PM.
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

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