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Thread: Wish Advice for aspiring ultra

  1. #1

    Default Wish Advice for aspiring ultra

    My last ultra ended very sadly. I forgot to take my SoCRs with me when I went to the chaos plane and was very shortly turned into a writhing mass of primal chaos. When I first got there, I unloaded my paralyzation, confusion, potions of blindness, PoCCs on a Chaos Brother thinking it was Andor Drakon -.-. Guess I got a little too excited. I had wished for speed, but even with the wish my speed didn't seem that high - something like 170~. After that really disappointing performance, I'm trying my luck with a Drakling Fighter. Character before this died in a Giant Vault which contained BoW and I believe Vanquisher. I starved myself, brought my stats all the way down, then removed my GoGS and Orb of Elemental Fire so that I could get the benefits of the giant corpses. Well, I was carrying enough that my character was crushed by his luggage. Such an annoying way to go.

    This character has been extremely lucky and I don't want to spoil that. Although had a pretty scary run-in gravedigging with an emperor lich who summoned molochs and mimic hiveminds. Oh, and a Ki-Rin on level four of the unreal cave system. Found three of them in the time I've been playing. One of them was low leveled and easily facerolled, the other was non-hostile. This one was a beast. Thank god I had eternium quarrels of slaying from that Titan tension room. Still, Somehow or another the game has saw fit to give me two RoDS and two WoWi (one with five charges and another with two). I used a wish for a GoGS and for the skill 'Concentration'. I've been thinking really hard about what my other wishes should be for. I'd like to have more speed, more dexterity, more Mana (so I can resist stat drains), and more Willpower. and get to level 45. How much Ma do you need until there's a 99% chance of dodging stat drain spells? I've already visited the quickling tree. So far I'm thinking the following:

    Magical Writing Sets (to make scrolls of protection, defense, charging, and increase melee accuracy. I think I'm fine on SoCRs - about eight left and still haven't done the weird tome. I hear it's rather costly to write them anyway.)

    Emperor Moloch. Kill them for EXP, hope one drops a moloch armor. I could probably squeeze out 14 points of Dex if I use sickness with it.

    Boots of the Slow Shuffle. Combined with a Moloch Armor, that'll take me down 40 speed.

    Spellbooks of Strength of Atlas & Spellbooks of Slow Monster (I'll check the Rift for these before I wish for them. Need some more levels until Climbing hits 100.)

    Potions of Exchange. I have unholy water and scrolls of uncursing. I also have some PoEXs stashed at the glade. Hoping with enough of these I can exchange my Wi stat with my Appearance or Charisma stat. After I switch out my shitty Ap or Ch stat and put it in Wi's place, I'll visit the Bug Temple.

    Much on some killer bugs while wearing Moloch Armor, BotSS, and /w Slow Monster cast. It'll train my dex up, get my speed up, and rape my Willpower stat. Hopefully, after that, though, I can use some more potions of exchange to switch it out again. Killing the killer claw bugs presents a problem, though. I have, I'd estimate, two castings of acid ball left. I loathe to think what will happen if I descend into the bug temple and it turned out I had only one casting left. Is it possible to melee killer claw bugs? I think I could probably get my DV up to 150-160~ in aggressive. Obviously some attacks are still going to get through though, no matter what your DV might be. I have good archery skills, but I noticed that it seems like you really need some ball spells for the bug temple. Hmm, now that I think about it I think I have a spellbook of Iceball somewhere.

    That's only five wishes, though. I want to save a wish for the Chaos plane. I was considering wishing for potions of quickling blood, potions of dexterity, and potions of willpower. Would it be better to just wish for the stat directly? Alternatively, I could wish for Alchemy and hope that the PoGA recipe is something I can make 10+ of. The wizard I had who died on the chaos plane was able to make something like eighteen PoGAs because of two potions shops in the UD, one in the PC, and one in the CoC. Don't remember any potion shops this game, so that might not be so viable this time around.


    Here's a my .vlg file. Just ate Keriax's corpse and got cleansed in the unicorn glade. Most of my stuff is stashed at the barbarian's glade. I haven't done Filk yet since I'm not level 45. I've done the BDC, cleared the supergrues on D:47 and killed the Ancient Karmic Wyrm. I haven't done the Water Temple (for some reason did the ToEF first), the Air Temple, or the Mana temple. Maybe those would be enough to put me up from 41 to 45. Named TalentFight because I rolled a fighter until he had three starting talents.



    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Character Information
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TalentFight St:48 Le:31 Wi:46 Dx:36 To:39 Ch:18 Ap:18 Ma:28
    Pe:26 N-
    DV/PV: 166/53 H: 839(909) P: 403(403) Exp: 42/16480167 M: 139145


    Typical DV/PV in "Very Aggressive" is something like 106/72 /w full gear.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Spells
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Acid Ball : 29, 59pp (Effectivity: +1)
    Burning Hands : 216, 8pp (Effectivity: +1)
    Disarm Trap : 117, 10pp (Effectivity: +0)
    Frost Bolt : 223, 12pp (Effectivity: +1)
    Knock : 397, 12pp (Effectivity: +0)
    Magic Missile : 363, 8pp (Effectivity: +0)
    Slow Poison : 275, 6pp (Effectivity: +0)
    Summon Monsters: 129, 30pp (Effectivity: +0)
    Teleportation : 352, 21pp (Effectivity: +6)


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Skills
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Alertness ................100 (superb) [+1d3]
    Archery ..................100 (superb) [+1d3]
    Athletics ................100 (superb) [+2d4]
    Backstabbing .............100 (superb) [+3d4]
    Climbing ................. 90 (great) [+1d5]
    Concentration ............100 (superb) [+1]
    Detect traps ............. 74 (great) [+1d3]
    Dodge ....................100 (superb) [+1d5]
    Find weakness ............100 (superb) [+1d3]
    First aid ................ 80 (great) [+1d5]
    Food preservation ........100 (superb) [+1d5]
    Herbalism ................100 (superb) [+1d5]
    Listening ................100 (superb) [+1d3]
    Literacy .................100 (superb) [+1]
    Music ....................100 (superb) [+1d5]
    Smithing ................. 71 (great) [+3d3]
    Stealth ..................100 (superb) [+1]
    Tactics ..................100 (superb) [+1d3]



    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Inventory
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Total weight: 1974 stones Carrying capacity: 10275 stones

    Head : uncursed eternium cap [+0, +7] [28s]
    Neck : uncursed ankh [3s]
    Body : uncursed adamantium scale mail (-1, -2) [+2, +12] [288s]
    Girdle : -
    Cloak : blessed cloak of defense [+5, +2] [20s]
    Right Hand : blessed brutal orcish spear (+9, 2d8+7) [75s]
    Left Hand : blessed tower crystal shield [+13, +7] [260s]
    Right Ring : -
    Left Ring : -
    Bracers : uncursed bracers of regeneration [+0, +3] [18s]
    Gauntlets : -
    Boots : blessed seven league boots [+1, +2] [30s]
    Missile weapon: uncursed heavy crossbow "The Far Slayer" (+18, +18) [350s]
    Missiles : bundle of 9 uncursed quarrels of demon slaying (+3, 2d6+3)
    Tool : -


    *Note, these are my stats without the GoGS, gaunlets of strength (+5), or the RotMC.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Stuff
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Total weight: 866 stones Carrying capacity: 10275 stones

    Gauntlets ('[')
    uncursed thick gauntlets (-1, -2) [+3, +4] [15s]
    Girdles ('[')
    blessed girdle of giant strength [+0, +4] {St+12} [30s]
    Tools (']')
    blessed fireproof blanket [10s]
    blessed waterproof blanket [10s]
    uncursed everburning torch [+1, +0] [10s]
    uncursed Chaos Orb of Elemental Fire {St+10} [100s]
    uncursed Chaos Orb of Elemental Earth {To+10} [100s]
    Rings ('=')
    blessed ring of the High Kings [+2, +3] [1s]
    blessed ring of the master cat [+0, +5] {Dx+16} (+16 spd) [1s]
    Wands ('\')
    blessed wand of paralyzation (0 charges) [3s]
    uncursed wand of paralyzation (0 charges) [3s]
    uncursed wand of paralyzation (0 charges) [3s]
    uncursed wand of webbing (1 charge) [3s]
    Last edited by sytar6; 04-24-2012 at 01:06 PM.

  2. #2
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    All of these wishes sound like a terrible waste. Every single one. Even magical writing sets, if you're just going to write scrolls of defense or protection. Your character is utterly overcharged. "Squeeze out 14 Dex"? That doesn't bloody matter at this point. You should strive to do as few unnecessary things as possible in order to not die an embarassing death like the last two times! An emperor moloch wish at this stage is just asking to get killed by an overcharged moloch. At a strength of 48 without the fire orb, if you're burdened, let alone relying on Strength of Atlas, you're carrying too damn much. That's how you get crushed by luggage in other games. I think all the wands of wishing are a ploy by the RNG; your character is too powerful to kill with anything inside the game, so it sends you five wishes and hopes you kill yourself with them. It worked when it sent you giant corpses!

    Do the remaining temples and the Rift, and if you're still missing something for level 45 (Nuurag-Vaarn gives loads of XP, and you can kill him slowed no problem), wish for the AKW or something (more predictable and manageable by far). The other wishes are far better spent on speed, or even emergency healing on the chaos plane, where you can't pray for it. That's what I have for wish advice. If you don't have something relevant to spend them on, don't spend them at all.



    (Not doing the water temple is one of the strangest things I've ever heard. It's the easiest orb to get, and the most valuable of them all.)

    EDIT: 48 strength without the girdle of giant strength, gauntlets of strength or the fire orb? If you wish for Strength of Atlas, I will cry myself to sleep tonight.
    Last edited by Silfir; 04-24-2012 at 01:28 PM.
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  3. #3

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    Point taken. Tho, minor thing, it sent me 9 wishes (5 charge WoWi, 2 charge WoWi, 2 rings of djinni summoning) I think. Hmm, or is that 11 if I wrench the final charge? I suppose you're right that any more is overkill. Guess maybe I'll wish for the magical writing set just to charge up my wand of monster detection so I can find Filk easily. I wouldn't be surprised if I have to dive a hundred levels in. Or two hundred levels in. I've killed like 257 rats. Would also like some way to find the stairs easily in the ID, but I have pretty limited mana & mana regen. Spellbooks of magic map and some potions of raw mana might be what I end up wishing for just to make the dive less tedious. Then I'll save the rest for the chaos plane.

    I usually do the water temple first, but I guess I was really hoping to find a Greater Vault with this character, so I dived to the bottom of the CoC as soon as I could. Stone temple seemed easy on the way since I didn't have to worry about item destruction.

    edit
    Was only going to wish for Strength of Atlas so I could wear the Moloch armor. Was toying around with the idea of reading scrolls of defense until it became viable haha.
    Last edited by sytar6; 04-24-2012 at 01:48 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by sytar6 View Post
    I'd like to have more speed, more dexterity, more Mana (so I can resist stat drains), and more Willpower. and get to level 45. How much Ma do you need until there's a 99% chance of dodging stat drain spells?
    I believe that while Mana has some influence, the good luck intrinsics are far more important. With intrinsic lucky and Fate smiles, plus the ankh and your current Ma score, you're probably fine.

    Would also like some way to find the stairs easily in the ID, but I have pretty limited mana & mana regen
    It is possible to sort-of guess where the down staircase is, depending on the position and layout of the room you arrive at. Look here if you want to know more.
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  5. #5

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    Don't know if I'm interpreting this correctly, but the IGB (which I know you guys hate) says the formula relies on the monster's spellpower and your luck.

    The PC avoids Stat drain or "Curse the PC" spells if Luck + 1dMa-1 >= 1d(spell power-1)

    I've got +18 on my luck roll. My mana gives me 26. That brings me up to 44 on a perfect roll. 31 on an average roll.
    An emperor lich's spellpower is 35. So he has a 1d34 roll. That means I'll dodge a perfect roll something like 35% of the time and an average roll 100% of the time. An above average roll 84% of the time. Base dodge chance is 50%. He has 17 dice rolls that can break through my luck. There's a 34% chance that my mana will not be able to block one of those 17. I think that gives me an 88% dodge chance in total.

    Andor has a spell power of 63. His average roll is 31. My average roll is also 31. I'll always dodge rolls of up to 19. That's around 29% of his drains dodged no matter what I roll. Another 29% or so, it doesn't matter if I have a perfect roll or not. He has 45 rolls that can break through my luck. The other 45% of rolls, I have around a 50% chance to dodge. I think that brings me up to around a 54% dodge rate. Not really too good. Wish it was more like 65-70'ish. rather an average of something more like 65-75%.
    Last edited by sytar6; 04-24-2012 at 03:12 PM.

  6. #6
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    Okay, let's see..

    First off I agree with Silfir, don't waste your wishes on those things. Maybe use one on another AKW, if the temples don't get you enough xp. Don't worry about speed, at least not when it comes to Andor Drakon. If you want to prevent stat drains from him, paralyze him. That is far more effective than having higher mana.

    Do you have any better weapon than that orcish spear? I'd be tempted to help blup to get the trident.

    Further, the fact that you need to dive so deep is going to be a major problem and you should use your remaining wishes to help you with that. Don't forget that corruption gets very bad, that deep. Scrolls of chaos resistance might actually be the best way to spend your wishes. Maybe an amulet of life saving is not a bad idea, either. The monsters are going to hurt, that deep in the ID. They are a much bigger challenge than the end boss.

    If you want to clear the bug temple, plugging your ears and wishing for a banshee is the easiest and safest method imo. That would gain you some nice scrolls of chaos resistance, some healing potions and scrolls of magic mapping - not bad.
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

  7. #7
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    If you're going to have to dive 200 levels in the ID then spellbooks of Magic Map are a perfectly sensible wish. Potions of raw mana - the effect is rather pitiful. You'd get more out of using the mana orb to recover PP and wishing for SoCR instead to fix the corruption caused; it would match your goal of raising Mana to prepare for stat rolls. (Or you just don't bother and cast from HP, which is what I'd end up doing.)

    In my experience the best way to avoid stat drains is not to fight in melee unless the stat drainer in question is disabled. In Andor's case, paralyzed.

    You don't have the Courage skill; is there a chance you haven't talked to the old barbarian at all yet? You can use him to find out what your first kill was.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sytar6 View Post
    The PC avoids Stat drain or "Curse the PC" spells if Luck + 1dMa-1 >= 1d(spell power-1)

    I've got +18 on my luck roll. My mana gives me 26. That brings me up to 44 on a perfect roll. 31 on an average roll.
    An emperor lich's spellpower is 35. So he has a 1d34 roll. That means I'll dodge a perfect roll something like 35% of the time and an average roll 100% of the time. An above average roll 84% of the time.

    Andor has a spell power of 63.
    First IGB is known to be tragically unreliable.
    Two - once you get to Andy stat drains is not the thing to worry about. At worst gulp few stat boost pots [i bet you have them in that huge pack].
    Far slayer+xbow skill+ dex boost from ring should get you through anyway.
    Three - that is not very wise set of wishes. At worst i would wish for speed in chaos plane any other wish I would compare to that.
    Four - from what i know [very little in general] Ma<40 does not get involved in stuff like luck rolls and a like.
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  9. #9
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    My thoughts...

    Your stats are fine. I wouldn't worry about bothering to increase them at all, especially if you also have the RotMC and a GoGS already. The only thing that could possibly stat drain you at this point is Andor Drakon, unless you're going to be fighting a swarm of emperor liches in melee (don't). The trick to Andor is just kill him quickly, and don't worry about the stat drains. It's not like you need stats after that point. As far as the Mana stat thing goes, remember that the ToTRR gives +24 Ma as well.

    The Mana Temple alone should easily push you pretty close to level 45. If not, the BDC will get you the rest of the way there. And if not that, well, you've got spare wishes. I'm guessing your speed is actually really high considering what you've done already, so maybe not.

    Your weapon is garbage. If you honestly haven't found anything better yet, you should wish for maces of destruction or something at least. Or get the rune-covered trident or Big Punch. Or check Darkforge or the Casino for a decent eternium weapon. Seriously, a level 15 character should have a better weapon than that.

    My wishes would probably looks something like this:

    -Spellbooks of Acid Ball
    -1-2 wishes on AKWs to get the xp you need to get to level 45.
    -..... I don't know. Maybe some quarrels of daemon/humanoid slaying if you're low. You'll need some for the emperor moloch and Andor.
    -Phase daggers maybe if you don't have a penetrating weapon and want to kill the emperor moloch in melee.

    I'd probably just save the rest for getting speed against Andor. Or SoCR if you desperately need more, maybe. But if you really shouldn't as an ultra. If you have to do a lot of diving for Filk, I guess there could be some supplies that you might want there too. Magic map and invisibility spellbooks, maybe. And more teleport.

    [edit2]And yes, as Silfir says, if you need to use spells, cast from HP. Yes, you might lose a point or two of Mana over the course of the rest of the game, but it seriously doesn't matter at this point of the game in the slightest.

    [edit]
    First IGB is known to be tragically unreliable.
    I think this is based off of sorear's notes, which are normally pretty good.
    Last edited by JellySlayer; 04-24-2012 at 04:50 PM.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  10. #10
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    Preparing for the TotRR, that looks like an okay weapon to pass the time. Maces of destruction would be a waste at this point. But yes, rune-covered trident.
    ADOM Guides - whatever you wanted to know about playing a certain class, but have been afraid to ask!

    Check out my youtube channel to see my ADOM videos, including a completed playthrough of the game. I try to give instructions, so if you want to see some place you haven't been before and get some hints on how to deal with it, this might help! There's also some other games featured there that you might find interesting.

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