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Thread: Two Questions: Kitty Karma and Game Difficulty At Beginning Versus End

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sytar6 View Post
    Are you supposed to just mine out the entire level? All these things seem tedious to the extreme.
    Well, yes, it's tedious. Just depends how bad you want the wand. You could just skip Darkforge. Mining is probably faster than the random teleport method though (which I've used on occasion as well). You shouldn't need to mine the entire level... with efficient mining, you shouldn't need to do more than maybe 1/4 at most. The breeder method shouldn't be too bad though (although I've never actually used it). I'd probably just drop a couple of water traps around the level and set off a few gremlin bombs with some fluff balls. Then, camp yourself on the stairs, surround yourself with locked doors (or cast darkness) and wait for a few thousand turns and you should be good. Regardless, the wand is guaranteed in the sense that you can, in principle, always find it. Not always easily, granted. If you don't like tedious methods, then you just play without until you find the right items.

    On your other point, you can just kill the beggars after you get the booze to keep the spawning going... Although having friendly wilderness monsters is a very useful thing, IMHO. Any time you get a wilderness encounter with a beggar, it means that you DIDN'T get a wilderness encounter with jackals or undead or whatever. This can actually make the wilderness much safer and less tedious for weak/doomed PCs. Annoying if you're high level and want to do some scumming or find a giant boar, I suppose (but you could just kill the beggars to fix the problem).

    If you're really stuck, almost all of these problems can be fixed by playing a wand or scroll merchant
    Any time a player finds Executor and fails to use it, the RNG kills a cute dog.

    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  2. #22

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    Beating the game while doomed seems like it could be a lot of fun. Any recommendations for an easy-ish first attempt? Think I'm going to try ignoring herbs first like Gut suggested, but I think I'd also like to try my hand with a doomed character. Any tips?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sytar6 View Post
    Beating the game while doomed seems like it could be a lot of fun. Any recommendations for an easy-ish first attempt? Think I'm going to try ignoring herbs first like Gut suggested, but I think I'd also like to try my hand with a doomed character. Any tips?
    Well, here's some things to think about...

    -Monsters damage your armor like crazy. You probably lose an average of 1 PV per dungeon floor until you get artifact gear, if you fight in melee. If you find extra armor that gives some PV, it's probably worth hanging on to and just leaving in a pile at the stairs if it burdens you. Pretty much you're looking for an artifact suit by the endgame. Even eternium isn't safe. Even worn rings of mental stability and speed can be damaged (PV from weapons and shields is always safe, but that's about it).
    -Equipment destruction due to traps (especially runes), breath attacks and vortices is really bad. Did you know that an in your pack RoDS can be destroyed by acid? I've had it happen at least twice. Keep all valuables that you aren't going to need right away somewhere safe.
    -Piety is worthless. You have to destroy all of your piety to get doomed in the first place, and can never go above spiritual. Prayers fail more than 50% of the time, and you'll never be crowned, so pretty much all you need altars for is holy water and identification.
    -The following monsters should be treated as extremely dangerous, and should preferably be killed with missiles until you get the appropriate resistances: ghuls, mimics, staring eyes, floating eyes, carrion crawlers, brown worms, harpies, gelatenous cubes, homunculi, jackalware (possibly others I can't recall). Basically anything that can paralyse or sleep can kill you with 1 hit. If your Wi is low, gibbering mouthers and dopplegangers are also very dangerous. It is worth sipping pools just for paralysis resist (just redoom with piety if you need to). Just to be clear, I've been killed by paralysis by a ghul with 50 DV and 40 PV in the Griffyard. Multiple times.
    -Starting To is massive. Elves are pretty much out of the game from the start, except possibly casters. Even casters have it pretty rough. At the start of the game it will take 2-3 bolts to kill a goblin. Drakes, orcs, dwarves, hurthlings are your best bet.
    -Early speed is very important. You will have unavoidable wilderness encounters every other step. You need some speed to get away from them until you build up your stealth. Raven born is nice for this, and the early RCT is killer for the Tower, although it's hard to ignore the benefits of Candle.
    -Stat drainers are really bad. These include the usual suspects like wights and shadows, as well as shadow centipedes, quasits, and lots of others.
    -Darkness is a problem. You will occasionally be eaten by a grue when you enter a dark area. The worst rooms are the flickering lights rooms. Torches are handy, but they tend to get destroyed easily. Ditto for amulets of light. It is usually okay to take your chances early on, or if you need some help with the Snake or something, but I wouldn't risk a high level character in a dark room.
    -Background corruption rate is doubled across the board. You can't get wishes from pools while doomed, so it's rare to save Khelly. Corruption can be a big problem. Scrolls from mystic are a huge help.
    -Dooming puts a huge penalty against you from confusion spells. ACW and archmage are very, very nasty. You can offset partially using the ankh, but you might consider that cheating a bit.
    -Wear the crown of science (except possibly for aforementioned confusion monsters). Double dooming is not much worse than single doom, and the crown benefits are gold.
    -Most characters will end up true berserking the early game. Your to-hit is so low and your armor gets destroyed so fast that at some point you'll just be better off with it. Another reason to have high starting To.
    -Ultras are obviously off the table unless you bend the rules a bit.
    -Expect to see an awful lot of "You shudder" rooms.
    -Wrenching wands never works. Don't even bother trying.
    -Monster generation is generally a bit higher.

    All taken together, my suggestion for an easy starter character is a high To archer, or possibly wizard. I'd suggest a hurthling archer, or a drakeling wizard or dwarf wizard. If you can survive long enough, elf wizard will still be a beast once you get herbs, but before then you're walking on eggshells the whole game. If you want the full dooming experience thrown at you though, you've got to play melee. Go for a barbarian or beastie or your favourite powerhouse character. But don't neglect missiles or you'll get owned by a carrion crawler. Take long stride and a couple speed talents early. If you want treasure hunter, you'll probably want a multi-talent character who can take long stride at level 1, unless you're Raven-born.

    [edit]Oh, and expect to die. Frequently.
    Last edited by JellySlayer; 05-02-2012 at 02:31 AM.
    Any time a player finds Executor and fails to use it, the RNG kills a cute dog.

    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  4. #24
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    What about trolls? Awesome toughness, strength and extra speed. Low XP rate doesn't look important because you are not after an ultra. Trouble with aging hits, perhaps? They look very underrated to me!
    1 ULE, 1 UNE, 18 regular endings. Won with every race. Trying to win with every class. Never won with farmer, merchant, mindcrafter and thief.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by quik View Post
    What about trolls? Awesome toughness, strength and extra speed. Low XP rate doesn't look important because you are not after an ultra. Trouble with aging hits, perhaps? They look very underrated to me!
    Trolls don't get extra speed...

    The low XP rate hurts more later in the game: You'll be underpowered compared to other races because with a couple more levels, they'll end up with more HP/PP and maybe some nice class powers. Your stats will probably be equalized thanks to massive stat drains on the one hand, and herbs on the other, so there's a good chance you'll have lost most of your trollish advantages and be stuck with the disadvantages. Big problem early on is that trolls have low Wi and Dx, so they're terrible with missiles, and will have big problems with confusion monsters.
    Any time a player finds Executor and fails to use it, the RNG kills a cute dog.

    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    Double dooming is not much worse than single doom
    So there is a difference? Do you have any more specifics?

    It's too bad you already did all the better melee classes. Left to do: assassin, healer, fighter, weaponsmith, mindcrafter.. ooh and paladin, with their awesome crowning g.. oh wait.
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

    Robbing BugCave with a banshee.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by grobblewobble View Post
    So there is a difference? Do you have any more specifics?
    You get a double penalty on luck rolls. AFAIK, that's the only difference.
    Any time a player finds Executor and fails to use it, the RNG kills a cute dog.

    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  8. #28
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    > What about trolls? Awesome toughness, strength and extra speed. Low XP rate doesn't look important because you are not after an ultra. Trouble with aging hits, perhaps? They look very underrated to me!


    trolls are underrated. I don't know about for doomed PC's though, as
    I haven't played enough. They do suffer more from special attacks than
    any other race, in my xp.

    >>> Double dooming is not much worse than single doom


    >> So there is a difference?


    IIRC, there are PV penalties as well, per source. There may
    be DV penalties as well, but the PV is the interesting part,
    as it will allow for easier late-game flagellation.
    I can get lawful fast enough by torturing beggars or drowning Hawkslayer.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    Trolls don't get extra speed...
    I meant through Athletics. Thanks for your explanation, though
    1 ULE, 1 UNE, 18 regular endings. Won with every race. Trying to win with every class. Never won with farmer, merchant, mindcrafter and thief.

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