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Thread: Getting the first win

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    18

    Default Getting the first win

    Well, I have on-and-off periods of ADOM. Me and a friend of mine get into the "ADOM season" and start relentlessly making and playing characters until we inevitably get bored again.

    I'm probably not very good at ADOM as far as ADOM players go, but I find it fun and a good way to kill time, especially once you get into the second half of the game.

    Lately I've been playing with melee characters, specifically fighters and healers. The main problem I have with them is that I tend to become very reliant on prayers, potions etc. in the late-game, my melee damage is quite low and I have trouble killing things alot of the time. For example, on this latest character (dwarf healer who absent mindedly walked into a doppleganger king on the way to the mana temple and was destroyed. That's what I get for not watching my health) killing most enemies was a slow and difficult process (especially after his phase dagger was broken) and fighting things like named red wyrms was pretty much out of the question.

    I'm wondering if anyone has any tips or tricks for a melee to character to avoid this ahh-run-away-from-everything-and-spam-prayers/potions strategy in the late game. :P

    Le trimmed .flg for aforementioned healer:

    Code:
    Scree         St:29  Le:24  Wi:34  Dx:14  To:30  Ch: 3  Ap: 1  Ma:17  Pe:18 L+
    DV/PV: 59/47   H: -106(582)   P: 263(263)    Exp: 34/7871379    UL: 6 Sp: 103
    Confused Blessed Invisible Burdened
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Background Information
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Name: Scree               Race: male Dwarf          Class: Healer
    Eye color: black          Hair color: black         Complexion: tanned
    Height: 4'                Weight: 46 pounds         Scars: 3
    Age: 63 (grown-up)
    Star sign: Wand           Birthday: 2/Wand (day 62 of the year)
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Weapon Skills
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Melee weapon           Lvl   Hit   Dam   DV   Level          Required marks
    ---------------------  ---   ---   ---   --   -------------  --------------
    Unarmed fighting         6    +3    +2   +2   skilled              260
    Daggers & knives        11   +12    +7   +3   Mastery              382
    Clubs & hammers          5    +3    +2   +1   skilled              5
    Maces & flails           6    +4    +2   +1   skilled              6
    Swords                  11   +10    +7   +4   Mastery              1814
    Axes                    12   +12   +10   +3   Mastery              3884
    Whips                    1    +1    +0   +1   basic                25
    Pole arms                1    +1    +0   +0   basic                25
    Twohanded weapons        1    +1    +1   +0   basic                25
    Staves                   1    +1    +0   +1   basic                25
    
    Missile weapon         Lvl   Hit   Dam   Ra   Level          Required marks
    ---------------------  ---   ---   ---   --   -------------  --------------
    Slings                   6   +12    +9   +2   skilled              97
    Bows                     0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            4
    Crossbows                0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            7
    Thrown axes & hammers    0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            7
    Thrown daggers           0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            7
    Thrown rocks & clubs     0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            2
    Thrown spears            0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            7
    Boomerangs & scurgari    0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            7
    
    Shields                Lvl   DV               Level          Required marks
    ---------------------  ---   ---              -------------  --------------
    Shields                 11   +22              Mastery              3050
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                       Skills
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
      Alertness ................ 53    (good)         [+1]
      Backstabbing ............. 87    (great)        [+1d3]
      Bridge building .......... 15    (mediocre)     [+3d5] (mr)
      Climbing ................. 66    (good)         [+1d5]
      Concentration ............100    (superb)       [+2d4]
      Cooking .................. 30    (mediocre)     [+3d4] (mr)
      Courage ..................100    (superb)       [+1d5]
      Detect traps ............. 76    (great)        [+1d3]
      Find weakness ............100    (superb)       [+1d5]
      First aid ................100    (superb)       [+2d4]
      Haggling ................. 22    (mediocre)     [+4d5]
      Healing ..................100    (superb)       [+2d4]
      Herbalism ................100    (superb)       [+2d4]
      Listening ................100    (superb)       [+3d4]
      Literacy .................100    (superb)       [+1d5]
      Metallurgy ............... 57    (good)         [+3d3]
      Mining ................... 68    (good)         [+1]
      Smithing ................. 41    (fair)         [+3d3]
      Swimming ................. 53    (good)         [+1d5]
      Tactics .................. 61    (good)         [+1]
      Two weapon combat ........ 46    (fair)         [+1d5]
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                       Spells
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
       Calm Monster     :  1450,   8pp     (Effectivity: +0)
       Cure Disease     :  1850,   8pp     (Effectivity: +0)
       Cure Light Wounds:  1450,   5pp     (Effectivity: +0)
       Darkness         :   231,   4pp     (Effectivity: +0)
       Improved Fireball:   212,  30pp     (Effectivity: +1)
       Invisibility     :     1,  19pp     (Effectivity: +0)
       Light            :   316,   3pp     (Effectivity: +0)
       Magic Missile    :    17,  13pp     (Effectivity: +6)
       Neutralize Poison:   421,  10pp     (Effectivity: +0)
       Slow Poison      :  1450,   6pp     (Effectivity: +0)
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Effects of Corruption
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    You exhale sulphur (Ch: -4).
    You have become extremely thin and nimble (1/2 weight, DV: +6).
    You are surrounded by an unholy aura (Ch: -10, DV: +6).
    Your corrupted tissue seems to heal much faster.
    Your skin is covered by tough scales (PV: +8, Dx: -6, Ap: -4).
    You have grown a total of 12 eyes (Ap: -6, Pe: +6).
    You have grown a bulging cranium (Le: +6, Wi: +4, Ap: -6, PV: -4, To: -3).
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  His achievements during his adventures:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Scree, the dwarven healer, was killed by a doppleganger king.
    He scored 826576 points and advanced to level 34.
    He survived for 0 years, 91 days, 10 hours, 37 minutes and 10 seconds (76221
    turns).
    Scree visited 103 places.
    His strength score was modified by +2 during his career.
    His learning score was modified by +6 during his career.
    His willpower score was modified by +13 during his career.
    His dexterity score was modified by +10 during his career.
    His toughness score was modified by +10 during his career.
    His charisma score was modified by +5 during his career.
    His appearance score was modified by +7 during his career.
    His mana score was modified by +5 during his career.
    His perception score was modified by -1 during his career.
    He was the champion of the arena.
    He was the head of the thieves guild.
    He ended his adventuring life on level 6 of an unreal cave system.
    5180 monsters perished under his attacks.
    The following 17 artifacts were generated during his adventure:
      the si
      the dwarven rune axe "Rolf's Companion"
      the scythe of corruption "Moon Sickle"
      the golden gladius "Death's Sting"
      the Chaos Orb of Elemental Water
      the Chaos Orb of Elemental Air
      the Chaos Orb of Elemental Fire
      the Chaos Orb of Elemental Earth
      the lead-filled mace "Big Punch"
      the Brannalbin's Cloak of Defense
      the sword of Nonnak
      the elemental gauntlets
      the ring of the High Kings
      the crown of science
      the ancient mummy wrapping
      the ankh
      the rune-covered sling "Whirlwind"
    He possessed the following intrinsics:
      He was fire resistant (gained through items).
      He was poison resistant (gained through an item).
      He was cold resistant (gained through items).
      He was acid resistant (gained through an item).
      He was lucky.
      Fate smiled upon him.
      He was sleep resistant.
      He was able to control teleportation.
      He was invisible (gained through an item).
      He was paralyzation resistant (enhanced through an item).
      He was resistant to death rays.
      He was shock resistant (enhanced through items).
      He was immune to shock attacks.
    He had the following talents: Alert, Careful, Hardy, Healthy, Iron Skin,
    Miser, Mithril Skin, Shield Expert, Shield Master, Shield Specialist, Steel
    Skin, Tough Skin, Treasure Hunter.
    He had a final speed score of 103 (final base speed: 108).
    He was a messiah of Morodwyn.
    He asked for 20 divine interventions.
    He was a holy champion of Order.
    He was severely tainted by Chaos.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    18

    Default

    His equipment and some other stuff I had in my inventory, can't fit my entire inventory in one post though, haha.

    Code:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      Inventory
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Total weight: 3668 stones                Carrying capacity: 4575 stones
    
    Head          : -
    Neck          : blessed rusty amulet of free action                    [3s]
    Body          : uncursed yellow eternium plate mail (+0, -1) [-1, +10][240s]
    Girdle        : uncursed adamantium girdle [+0, +5]                   [18s]
    Cloak         : blessed Brannalbin's Cloak of Defense [+3, +3]        [30s]
    Right Hand    : -
    Left Hand     : blessed large eternium shield (-1) [+11, +5]          [54s]
    Right Ring    : blessed ring of the High Kings [+2, +3]                [1s]
    Left Ring     : blessed ring of slaying (+8 melee damage, +6 missile damage)
    Bracers       : uncursed rusty bracers of regeneration [+0, +0]       [18s]
    Gauntlets     : blessed elemental gauntlets (-1, +0) [+0, +3]         [10s]
    Boots         : blessed seven league boots [+4, +0]                   [30s]
    Missile weapon: -
    Missiles      : heap of 10 uncursed rocks (+0, 1d4)                   [50s]
    Tool          : uncursed Chaos Orb of Elemental Fire {St+10}         [100s]
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        Stuff
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Total weight: 3113 stones   Carrying capacity: 4575 stones
    
    Helmets ('[')
       uncursed crown of regeneration [+0, +0]                            [55s]
       uncursed diadem of beauty [+0, +0] {Ap+4}                          [35s]
    Armor ('[')
       blessed ancient mummy wrapping [+1, +5] {Ap-8}                     [60s]
       uncursed black dragon scale mail (-2, -4) [-2, +8]                [200s]
    Shields ('[')
       uncursed tower adamantium shield (-2) [+11, +2]                   [108s]
       uncursed medium crystal shield [+9, +4]                           [160s]
    Gauntlets ('[')
       uncursed thick gauntlets (-1, -2) [+1, +3]                         [15s]
       uncursed black dragon-hide gauntlets (-2, +0) [+0, +2]             [10s]
    Girdles ('[')
       uncursed girdle of strength [+0, +0] {St+1}                        [15s]
       heap of 2 uncursed adamantium girdles [+0, +3]                     [36s]
    Necklaces (''')
       blessed amulet of light                                             [3s]
       heap of 2 uncursed amulets of petrification resistance              [6s]
       blessed rusty amulet of teleport control                            [3s]
       uncursed ankh                                                       [3s]
       blessed amulet of order                                             [3s]
       cursed amulet of perseverance {Wi+3}                                [3s]
       blessed amulet of protection +2                                     [3s]
       heap of 2 cursed necklaces of rapid healing                         [4s]
       cursed amulet of health                                             [3s]
       heap of 2 uncursed amulets of light                                 [6s]
       heap of 2 uncursed amulets of free action                           [6s]
       heap of 2 uncursed amulets of balance                               [6s]
       uncursed amulet of protection +2                                    [3s]
       heap of 2 uncursed amulets of teleport control                      [6s]
       uncursed amulet of greed                                            [3s]
       blessed necklace of the eye                                         [3s]
       uncursed necklace of rapid healing                                  [2s]
       uncursed necklace of the eye                                        [3s]
       uncursed amulet of death ray resistance                             [7s]
       cursed amulet of balance                                            [3s]
    Bracers (',')
       uncursed bracers of resistance [+0, +0]                            [10s]
    One-handed weapons ('(')
       blessed dwarven rune axe "Rolf's Companion" (+3, 3d6+6) [+4, +4] {To+3}
       uncursed pick axe of slaughtering (+0, 2d8+1)                      [75s]
       blessed broken rusty phase dagger (-4, 1d4-2)                       [5s]
       uncursed sword of sharpness (-1, 4d8+2)                            [35s]
       uncursed eternium broadsword of lightning (+1, 2d7+9)              [38s]
    Two-handed weapons ('(')
       uncursed halberd of defense (+4, 2d7+4) [+18, +0]                  [80s]
       uncursed quicksilver quarterstaff (+6, 5d3+5) [+3, +0] (+20 spd)   [20s]
    Missiles ('/')
       bundle of 4 uncursed mithril arrows (+0, 1d6+3)                     [8s]
       heap of 2 uncursed rocks (+0, 1d4+3)                               [10s]
       heap of 2 blessed rocks (+2, 1d4)                                  [10s]
       bundle of 11 uncursed griffon-feathered arrows (+0, 1d6)           [22s]
       heap of 2 uncursed rocks (+3, 1d4+2)                               [10s]
       heap of 4 uncursed rocks (+2, 1d4)                                 [20s]
       bundle of 2 uncursed arrows (+0, 1d6+1)                             [4s]
       bundle of 5 uncursed adamantium arrows (+1, 1d6+8)                  [5s]
       heap of 4 cursed rocks (+0, 1d4)                                   [20s]
       bundle of 2 uncursed mithril sling bullets of targeting (+11, 2d5)  [6s]
       bundle of 6 uncursed mithril arrows (+3, 1d6+6)                    [12s]
       bundle of 12 uncursed winged arrows (+0, 1d6+2)                    [24s]
       uncursed javelin of death (+9, 6d6)                                [40s]

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiggyMcjoney View Post
    I'm wondering if anyone has any tips or tricks for a melee to character to avoid this ahh-run-away-from-everything-and-spam-prayers/potions strategy in the late game. :P
    Missiles I know it's not melee, but it's the only way you're going to get anywhere if you're not relying on magic. Melee is simply the hardest way to try and win in the game. Getting in melee range means the monsters can actually hit you, and it generally involves being on the less defensive tactics setting.

    I note from the flg the only missile skill you had raised was slings, up to level 6. Ideally you should have both bows and crossbows up to level 10. Slaying ammo will take down almost everything. The one big exception of course is doppelganger kings, and the best piece of advice for them is run away (or switch to coward tactics and unload all of your wands on them).

    You might also want to consider clever use of darkness and invisibility to help in melee. Most monsters can't fight back in darkness (including doppelganger kings) and if it doesn't let you kill them it at least lets you get some distance. Invisibility lets you pick and choose many fights, and take monsters on one at a time. Potions of blindness or confusion also work well against some of the really tough bosses.

    Another thing is to try and get a good weapon, of course. Phase daggers are pretty measly really. What you really want is a good slaying weapon like Executor. Barbarians have a nice chance of getting the ultra-strong Vanquisher. Vaults and the Casino sometimes have nice weapons, but to get something really tasty early on it's best to try for a precrown at the earliest available altar. Sac around 100-150 critters, be of non-extreme alignment, get the "extremely close" message and pray - your god will reward you with a free tasty artifact (assuming not too many artifacts have already been generated) and with a bit of luck it might be the likes of Serpent's Bite.

    Further to that, for melee you really need to train your strength very high. Your flg says St 29 - is that with or without the Fire orb equipped? If with then base St 19 is pretty abysmal. Try to get your St higher with giant corpses, or maybe even abuse the ape corruption if you get it (gradually increases St and To at the cost of other stats).

    Finally, be careful :P Accidentally bumping into a doppelganger king will kill most chars pretty daned quickly. If you're not careful at every stage you will die. A lot

    Edit: Just seen the equipment that got posted. Where the hell's his melee weapon?!
    Platinum Edition ADOMer
    http://gamesofgrey.com - check out my roguelikes!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    Just seen the equipment that got posted. Where the hell's his melee weapon?!
    That is the question I asked myself after I died. I think it got disarmed moments earlier, but I didn't see it. Probably falls under the 'take care' umbrella, but it was weird, because usually I notice things like that.

    It was a blessed sword of sharpness, though (4d8+6).

    My strength was a biiiig dilemma during the most part of the game. That's with the orb, so yeah, my strength is extremely low. It got drained down to 14 at one point (which, funnily enough, probably could've been avoided if I'd been more skilled with missiles. Heh)

    How does pre-crowning work? I always get crowned (got Brannalbin's Cloak of Defense on this character) but I've never been pre or post crowned. If you get pre-crowned, can you get crowned as well once you get absolutely close and, as a result, end up with two artifact rewards?

    I do try and level missiles but I never really get very far with them. I'll try to use them alot more though, guess its something i'll need to win. Thanks for all the advice, i'll keep this all in mind ;D.

  5. #5
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    Short version - get a good weapon. Precrown is not hard, with patience you can do it 2 times. Rewards can be great. And then you get normal crowning.

    Any weapon with good pre/suffix should be kept and used. "penetration" or "devastation" weapons are usually end-game weapons.

    Basic two-handed eternium sword can deal enough damage for a game with training, usually one is found in darkforge. But you will get hit a bit with it.

    If you hate looking for weapons, try a beastfighter, but DO play with a bow/crossbow when you can.

    And lastly, for an easy first win, play a wizard. Play carefully at start, goto ID1-2 until level 10, with 10 different spells, and then start playing the rest of the game. Carefully. Once herbs are found, how can you lose? Do not play a grey/high elf wizard, they difficult to keep alive. Dwarf wizard, human, gnome, hurthling, orc, drakeling...even troll. Go for it.
    ADOM General's warning: Treasure Hunting causes slowness, frailty, terrible markmanship and is dangerous to your characters' health

  6. #6
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    A few suggestions:

    1) Play a wizard. Melee characters are generally much harder to play than any other type. The risk is just generally that much higher, and there are certain mobs (such as, but not limited to, Doppleganger Kings) that absolutely need a strategy more than just hack-and-slash. Generally, I would say the difficulty would look like this: Melee > Missile > Caster. Note that you're playing a healer, which can quite easily be played as a caster. Really though, I would say that 80-90% of first wins are with a wizard--compared to melee, it almost feels like cheating.

    2) Use disruption tactics. Pretty much all of the game's most dangerous mobs have at least one critical weakness. These are usually one of: blindness, darkness, confusion, paralysis, invisibility, stunning. Don't assume that the monster is too strong for these effects to stick. They probably will. At worst, it will take a few tries. With the exception of paralysis (requires a somewhat uncommon wand), most of these effects can be easily found from a wand or potion (blindness and confusion potions can be thrown at monsters) or spell. Use them. I honestly think the biggest difference between beginner players and advanced players is the ability to effectively use these sorts of tactics.

    3) Use missile weapons. They rock. Seriously. Give an archer a try if you want to get a good feel for it. With seven league boots (or something similar), you can pretty much hit and run forever.

    4) Use a high damage weapon. Phase daggers aren't as great as they seem--they're a special-use weapon. On a monster with a lot of health, you can take 20 turns to kill them. The same monster might die in one hit from Big Punch on berserk mode. The difference is recognizing how much your average damage exceeds the monster's PV. If your weapon is 8d4 + 40, then you can probably outhit your phase dagger on anything except for molochs, high-end golems, and a few other monsters. There's nothing wrong with using potions and prayers to save yourself. But if you're using them often, especially at this point in the game (which is usually considered the easiest part), then it probably suggests there's something wrong with your strategy. Post ToEF, most monsters should be dying in 1-2 hits, unless they are unusually powerful.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  7. #7
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    At the wizard suggestions, I understand how much better casters are, but I'm not ina caster mood, haha. That level 34 healer is the highest character I've had so far, my previous highest was a 26 elementalist (EDIT: with the exception of the previous 26 fighter I had, who died in the mana temple). But I'm bored of casters now, so I'm playing fighter types, its funner.

    Thanks for all the help though everyone :P.

  8. #8
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    Don't listen to the naysayers. Melee types for the win. Just train your reactions so you are instantly deathly afraid of anything that looks like you.

    My second win was a high elven fighter without any precrowns and using Rolf's Companion as his main weapon throughout the game, not unlike your healer (crowning gift was Long Sting)... Rechecking I finished the game with Grand Mastery in axes and most importantly with level 8/9 in bows/crossbows. This makes a huge difference. One great red wyrm in the kill list - dragon slaying ammo. Greater titan? Killed with humanoid slaying ammo. The list goes on and on. ADOM is focused on items, and slaying properties are just too extreme not to be used.

    What also can't hurt to help strength is gambling a couple of million gold at the casino and dumping it all on Garth. It's cheesy, but on the way to the first win, I feel it's justified. Plus there's the risk of an instadeath because there are quite a few things that can get rid of a blessed girdle of greed, so it's not like it's that cheesy.

  9. #9
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    I say give beastfighters a try. You never even need
    to pick up a stupid melee weapon, let alone use it : )
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  10. #10
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    Jan 2009
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    As a very lazy player, I'm also a fan of melee. I hate having to press t and pick things up over and over. =P The basics have already been covered: better weapon, somewhat better stats, and a backup strategy in case hitting things doesn't work.

    I would suggest swapping out RoTHK with at least a blessed ring of damage. And contrary to Grey, I do most of my melee on 'very aggressive'. If you kill something fast enough, you're safe from it. I also noticed that you're missing a lot of intrinsics, which is weird. Generally, eating fire creatures will give you fire resist, venomous creatures poison resist, etc... which gives you more freedom to optimize your eq.

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