Getting out of touch with everything.

[Silfir]

but it seems to me that casting from HP is completely ignoring the astral component

Huh? Of course it uses the connection. All spells require arcane or mystic/divine energy to fuel. If you don't have enough of it, some of your life force is pulled in instead, but since it's not the kind of energy that the spell expects, it damages your connection to the magic energy inherent in the world (your Mana stat), sort of like running an engine using poorly suited fuel. (For instance diesel engines can use petrol - but not nearly as well, and it will do quite some damage to the engine over time.)

Everything about that makes sense. Having your Toughness damaged from having your life force pulled out would make sense too if it were that way, but I don't see a necessity for it to be that way. Having your life energy sucked out by vampires or the like is still something quite distinct from most everything else; that's a distinctly undead feature, and the fact the drain is permanent can be explained by the vile undead magics at work in these creatures.



As for Teleportation, it's a spell listed in a spellbook, presumably equipped with all kinds of safeguards to make sure that the travel through the astral plane goes smoothly. Also, teleportation happens instantly - even though beings on the material plane can travel through astral space to reach different places, they don't really spend any definable amount of time on the astral plane itself, and I think that's because the teleportation effects in the game don't have the means to make that happen. Otherwise, why have characters exit the plane at all in the case of teleportation traps? Get sucked into astral space -> die seems much more satisfying for whoever placed that trap. If you spent barely any time in the astral plane - in fact, an infinitely small amount of time (an instant) - that could well be simply not enough time for the body to sustain any damage.

[anon123]

though it should be kept in mind that taking damage doesn't abuse toughness as a matter of course

I think taking damage even trains To if it's below 10, but never checked thoroughly.

As for HP casting - I never do it because I don't want my hard-earned Ma to be reduced, even if it's just 1-2 points. So as far as I'm concerned, the current system is effective. For the Mana temple I use wands and melee. It takes some time, but you eventually kill all the eyes and can pray for a refill. Prayers to get PP aren't very expensive unless you've been doing a lot. Scrolls of power don't do much for you even if blessed. While not helpful, I think that's a good aversion from other RPGs and should also be kept as is... OK, enough off topic from me now

[AlterAsc]

For Teleportation i would suggest that consequential teleports without in-between rest should damage the caster for percentage(let's say 15-20) of max hp. By rest i mean 10-15 turns of not teleporting.
The reason behind is the fact that your PC is not a magical creature and it's body is not accustomed to such way of travelling.
Astral plane corruption reduces penalties.

[prime]

As for Teleportation, it's a spell listed in a spellbook, presumably equipped with all kinds of safeguards to make sure that the travel through the astral plane goes smoothly. Also, teleportation happens instantly - even though beings on the material plane can travel through astral space to reach different places, they don't really spend any definable amount of time on the astral plane itself, and I think that's because the teleportation effects in the game don't have the means to make that happen. Otherwise, why have characters exit the plane at all in the case of teleportation traps? Get sucked into astral space -> die seems much more satisfying for whoever placed that trap. If you spent barely any time in the astral plane - in fact, an infinitely small amount of time (an instant) - that could well be simply not enough time for the body to sustain any damage.

I would imagine it takes quite a lot of effort to actually send something to the astral plane permanently. Basically, teleportation is like throwing a rock and having it land somewhere, and controlled teleportation is being able to aim the rock. Sending someone to the astral plane is like throwing a rock into orbit.

[gut]

casting from HP is clearly blood magic. the only penalty should be alignment and hp

[Aielyn]

Huh? Of course it uses the connection. All spells require arcane or mystic/divine energy to fuel. If you don't have enough of it, some of your life force is pulled in instead, but since it's not the kind of energy that the spell expects, it damages your connection to the magic energy inherent in the world (your Mana stat), sort of like running an engine using poorly suited fuel. (For instance diesel engines can use petrol - but not nearly as well, and it will do quite some damage to the engine over time.)

Everything about that makes sense. Having your Toughness damaged from having your life force pulled out would make sense too if it were that way, but I don't see a necessity for it to be that way. Having your life energy sucked out by vampires or the like is still something quite distinct from most everything else; that's a distinctly undead feature, and the fact the drain is permanent can be explained by the vile undead magics at work in these creatures.

You seem remarkably sure of the metaphysical explanation for these things, given that it's all fan-created theory.

To me, arcane energy is arcane energy, and your body's lifeforce is just one such arcane energy - it's just one that you don't want to use unless strictly necessary, as it's important for your survival. Kind of like how, if you're in drought, and you have one bucket of clean water and one bucket of dirty water, and no more water for another few days, and there's a fire, you should use the dirty water to put out the fire... but death from fire is worse than lack of water for a couple of days, so with no dirty water left, you use the clean water.

And I always thought that those four were literally sucking lifeforce from you, just as you'd imagine a vampire to be doing (rather than using a magical spell or something).

But more importantly, my reason for suggesting it (casting from HP abusing Toughness rather than Mana) is a matter of balance, and everything else is demonstrating that it's not an arbitrary choice, that you can justify it reasonably well.

As for Teleportation, it's a spell listed in a spellbook, presumably equipped with all kinds of safeguards to make sure that the travel through the astral plane goes smoothly. Also, teleportation happens instantly - even though beings on the material plane can travel through astral space to reach different places, they don't really spend any definable amount of time on the astral plane itself, and I think that's because the teleportation effects in the game don't have the means to make that happen. Otherwise, why have characters exit the plane at all in the case of teleportation traps? Get sucked into astral space -> die seems much more satisfying for whoever placed that trap. If you spent barely any time in the astral plane - in fact, an infinitely small amount of time (an instant) - that could well be simply not enough time for the body to sustain any damage.

I'm not suggesting that travelling the astral plane, even momentarily, does you damage. I'm suggesting that the process of teleportation causes your connection to the Astral plane to get messed around with, and that's what abuses your mana. Like using a pole to jump over a gap - it will help you across, but the pole will also take some damage in the process.

And if Teleportation being listed in a spellbook means it has heaps of safeguards, what's the explanation for Improved Fireball, Summon Monster, and Earthquake? All three are dangerous spells. I'd instead suggest that Teleportation is mostly safe, but that it abuses Mana because your body wasn't meant to enter the astral plane, even if it happens instantaneously and you spend no measurable time in there.

[prime]

New change: teleportation now sends you through the chaos plane. You come out corrupted and there's a chance a chaos being comes along with you back to the material plane.

Alternatively: teleportation still sends you through the astral plane, but because all the other mages are using the astral plane to cast fire/cold/lightning/acid ball, you take serious damage from flying through all of them. Also, when you cast any of the ball spells, there's a chance you accidentally drag a teleporting wizard down along with your ethereal acid.

[ghostrobotmoonzombie]

newest change: chance when teleporting that you remateralise half in and half out of a floor/wall/ceiling/monster and instantely die

more alternatively: teleport only effects your physical body, leaving all items, weapons and armours on the floor

[nipon621]

newest change: chance when teleporting that you remateralise half in and half out of a floor/wall/ceiling/monster and instantely die

more alternatively: teleport only effects your physical body, leaving all items, weapons and armours on the floor

Definitely! And instead of teleport traps, lets have them add death ray traps!

[Grey]

The astral plane is like a small child. Staying "in touch" with it keeps its attention and lets you play with it more. Seeking other sources of power to play with (such as playing with yourself) will cause the astral plane to cry and wander off.