Artifact generation questions

[nipon621]

Hey guys,

I scummed that test archer so badly that I'm just going to turn him into the biggest, most broken, powerhouse I have ever seen.

Here's the issue. I want him to get Sun's Messenger. I already know that his crowning gift is thunderstroke. I have not generated the water dragon's lair yet, nor have I generated any greater vaults. Is it possible to re-roll item generation using save scumming at the WDL (or greater vaults for that matter) until the desired artifact(s) are generated?

What other extremely dirty, 'will make you go to ADOM hell' tactics could be used to boost their generation? I know there must be somebody in this forum who obtained all artifacts with a PC (maybe gut?). I'm curious to know how they did it.

Additional question - what is the distinguishing feature of the unidentified Sun's Messenger?

[SirTheta]

To my knowledge, Sun's Messenger is only available as a crowning artifact. un-ID'd, I believe it is an elven long bow.

[Silfir]

Silvery long bow, I think. Sun's Messenger always used to be one of the crowning-only artifacts, if you didn't get it then you were out of luck. "Most artifacts possible" games were attempted - Grey had one with sixteen or so precrownings if I'm remembering right - but never a get all artifacts game.

I think the new prereleases use a different system in which you still can't get all artifacts in one game, but the "random artifact pool" is now randomized. If Sun's Messenger isn't in that pool, you will never get it.

EDIT: I think Vanquisher is "silvery"?

[grobblewobble]

High elves and gray elves have twice as much chance to be crowned with it as normal archers. You might want to reroll high elf archers and get crowned asap with each of them.

[anon123]

Here's the issue. I want him to get Sun's Messenger. I already know that his crowning gift is thunderstroke. I have not generated the water dragon's lair yet, nor have I generated any greater vaults. Is it possible to re-roll item generation using save scumming at the WDL (or greater vaults for that matter) until the desired artifact(s) are generated?

Yes. As long as you haven't generated the level already, the items you find in the WDL, Griffyard, Casino, Darkforge, etc. will be different every time you enter. So savescumming would get you the bow, if all conditions are fine (see below) - eventually, as getting artifacts this way is rare.

What other extremely dirty, 'will make you go to ADOM hell' tactics could be used to boost their generation?

Is this a test PC? How far are you willing to go?

To my knowledge, Sun's Messenger is only available as a crowning artifact

Is this still so in 1.2.0? I thought this was fixed to make a different half of the game's non-guaranteed artifacts chosen to be available at the start of the game.

[nipon621]

So, what are the new artifact generation rules then? I'm using 1.2 pre-3.

I've already stooped to such depths of depravity with this guy that each kill brings morbid reflections of inadequacy instead of any sense of victory they once held. He save scummed DF, save scummed for lightning and acid immunity, has a perpetually working, fully optimized gremlin farm (works any time he's on the level - if you want the specs, let me know), has a sustainable wish engine, and scummed for some intinsics from pools. How much dang further can he go? At this point it's less of a test PC than a self masturbatory exercise in cheating. But my goal is to see how much I can squeeze out of the game, out of the PC, under ideal circumstances and without restrictions.

I'm definitely going to ADOM hell XD

[anon123]

has a perpetually working, fully optimized gremlin farm (works any time he's on the level - if you want the specs, let me know)

I'm guessing a row of water and light traps in a large room?

[SirTheta]

I always forget that there is a new adom version. In that case, I guess it is possible?

Vanquisher is definitely silvery two-handed sword.

Looking it up in adomgb, Sun's Messenger is elven long bow when un'ID'd.

[gut]

if it were 1.1.1 linux version, it would be possible to use adom-tas to do what you want.
if it were 1.1.1 windows version, it would be possible to use adombot to do what you want.

[nipon621]

i'm guessing a row of water and light traps in a large room?

Its a bit more complex than that (see below). I feel that it is the most efficient possible, infinitely functioning gremlin farm design (wearing two shields ensures this infinite functionality).

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There are four components - the room, the escape tunnel, the traps, and the reset antechamber (an idea I came up with while writing this)

The antechamber contains an alarm trap that can lure a gremlin inside, after which one can eventually teleport and close the door behind him. The placement ensures that to attack you, he will need to pass through the water trap, obviating the need for additional fluff balls. This is an optional feature, and since I have not yet implemented it, I imagine that there are probably some kinks to be worked out. The alarm trap may be unnecessary, or even decrease overall efficacy - I just dont know. It would probably work if you just kept a locked door there and some space behind it - a gremlin is likely to spawn there eventually.

A trap should be placed away from the intended construction site so as to locate where to dig without running into a spot where a trap should be but a door once stood (because a wand of trap creation will then create a trapped door on that square). A means of trap removal is highly advised.

The trap measures 7 squares in height and 7 in width, which means that there are enough free spaces with 40 gremlins that they can freely move, and you can teleport in again (with a wand of monster detection, and possibly a potion of boost speed) while retaining high population density for maximum pickpocket success, as well as lowering the number of turns the gremlins need in order to rush to their deaths.

Traps on the left are water, middle are light, and right are alarm. Any gaps in the wall should be fixed using locked doors.

It is recommended that you wear two shields while using the farm (after you start it). You start it by weilding a fluff ball under one of the water traps (per usual) while visible and bait them into said traps until the room is pretty full. You then need a gremlin to step on an alarm trap.

Important - After the trap has been started remain visible while on the left hand side on the spot marked in the above diagram. The fact that you are nearby the monster generation entices them to return to the water traps, and increases the rate of nearby unpickpocketed gremlins. The adjacent light traps also increase pickpocket efficacy.

The trap can be exited via teleportation or slowly wading through the crowd. It can be re-entered while running by either controlled teleport and a wand of monster detection or wading through the crowd to the exit (invisibility speeds this process).

It can be turned off by becoming invisible and standing nearer to the alarm traps - all the gremlins will eventually make it over there and kill themselves. For truly infinite use, you can take care of the final gremlin by baiting him into the light traps.

I have not done quantitative testing on the drop rate, but it is much higher than any other form of trap that I have tried - about 3 in game days of it running resulted in about 40 normal sets of robes and 9 torches if that gives you an idea of common and rare drops.

The danger level is easily adjusted using scrolls of danger/peace or the location at which you build the trap.

Edit: It is extremely impractical to gather the loot while any gremlins are alive, so it is advised to secure a way to restart the trap and then turn it off in the manner described above prior to gathering it. It can be gathered and identified via any normal means, but it is highly advised to drop all current inventory except for some scrolls for identify on an empty space and then pick up the unidentified loot, move to another un-occupied space, identify it, drop everything, pick up blessed scrolls of identify and repeat. After the loot is piled, you can pick up your original items, take only what you need, dispose of anything possible using bolts if you're a caster, and move the rest somewhere else (after dropping your initial inventory of course)