The 'suggest a Greater Vault layout/monster combination' thread

[Arbot]

Only read the first couple pages but I think we should have a Greater Armory (Vault) filled with mimics animated armors dancing weapons with steel/eternium golems as the bosses protecting the "treasure horde".

[rho]

Persoanlly, I think we should stear away from suggesting anything with new mechanics or monsters or anything. So that would rule out having a marshy vault or an underwater vault, vaults with special characters or with guaranteed loot outside of what's standard for a greater vault, anything which would require the creation of new monsters, and so on. While I don't think that these are bad ideas, I think that they're essentially a different type of idea. If we stick with just ideas for new lists of (current) monsters to put into a greater vault, then I think we could likely come up with a more coherent whole to present to Thomas, and I would guess also something that would be more likely to be implemented. Additional ideas for vaults with new monsters, or new types of vaults could then be made separately.

[Phoobnahr]

since we're discussing normal vaults too I'd kinda like to see a lesser chaos vault...
Concerns have already been voiced regarding the similarity of a greater chaos vault to the Mana Temple. I think this is a legitimate concern (though not necessarily enough of a concern to eliminate it entirely), but I would like to see a lesser vault filled with Chaos Brothers and Sisters, Chaos Plague Bearers, Writhing Masses, up to possibly a Corruptor.

Also as regards greater vault layout, I wonder if it is possible to code greater vaults that generate in the top or bottom half of a level, rather than the left or right half, allowing greater vaults that can be mapped as more of a long corridor rather than a large, essentially square area.

My other idea for greater vaults was the theme of monsters with highly dangerous non-standard attacks (think of the petrification attacks of Gorgons and Stone Slimes). Others on the board will be more able than I am to say whether there are enough monsters with such attacks. I am currently unaware of if there are enough powerful monsters with status attacks (such as blinding, slowing, confusing, stunning, etc) who are not already included in the existing vaults.

[grobblewobble]

Greater thunder vault: lighting lizard, air elemental, baby blue dragon, blue dragon, ancient blue dragon, great blue wyrm
Greater cold vault: baby white dragon, frost giant, frost giant berserker, white dragon, ancient white dragon, great white wyrm
Greater acid vault: ankheg, baby black dragon, black dragon, ancient black dragon, great black wyrm (alternately: black slayer instead of ankheg)

So someone go ahead and post at least these? They're the most logical / straightforward additions in the potential list and I think almost everyone favors them. Of course there can still be minor debates on whether to use giant slug or ankheg etc.

[_Ln_]

Why do we have a maximum of 5 monster types per vault? Because existing vaults have this feature?

When we are speaking of a demon vault, I'd imagine it would be something like least/lesser/greater demons + *all* elemental demons + balors/greater molochs as bosses at the same time. That will add brilliant difficulty level, as you'll have to employ different tactics (well, barring spamming Magic Missile) against all these guys. It also should be very high-DL to allow multiple bosses (so that both types are featured). I'd absolutely love to see something like that, because it'll be a challenge worth completing (if artifacts are good enough, that is). Number of artifacts may also be increased for this vault to match increased difficulty.

Wait, double-checking Jelly's suggestions I see several ideas with more that 5 types. I especially like greater stone vault, although GEE's will lose all their possibility of swarming due to undiggable walls. Still a great one.

[sorrow]

Surely not an issue for a player, but a greater feline vault would be just fun. Or one just with animals. And some black wizards on top of that.

If not, a lesser vault just with different cats should be fun. With stairs generated so that the player has to pass through the vault.

[Grey]

Haha, feline vault would be amazing. And you get to the end and find... cat's claw :P

[Laukku]

Cat vault is awesome for the trolling value it provides. :-) Problem is, there's only 3 types of felines. (Lesser vaults have 4 monster types within, AFAIK) Implement panthers?

[Aielyn]

I agree that there needs to be more thematic vaults, less "combination of monsters of <type>" vaults. Having some of them feature other types of dungeon features (like forges) is also a nice touch.

How about a Water Vault:

Contains a combination of monsters with affinity to water or ability to ignore water. Bats, Giant Turtles, Gremlins, etc. Could have a river running down the centre of the vault (with the water-restricted monsters within it), maybe have some Shadow Wyrms (they ignore water) and/or Greater Water Elementals as the main threats. Might also have a pool somewhere within it. Contains some Water traps. Vault would also share "very humid" room trait.

Or a Darkvault:

Entire vault is Dark, contains monsters that see in darkness. Perhaps have Great Wyrms of various types as the boss monsters. Also filled with quite a few Light traps.

Or maybe a Vault of Flora:

Contains only plant life and things that resemble plants - Animated Trees, Shambling Mounds, Oozes, Slimes, Jellies, possibly Blobs and Gelatinous Cubes... you get the idea. Would also feature a lot of herbs on the ground in the vault. May share the "rich flavour" room trait.

And to go with it, perhaps Vault of Fauna:

Contains only Animals (the ones that are automatically neutral to Druids). Maybe feature beehives and/or ant hives.

And then there's the Creepy Crawly Vault:

Contains many types of insect, other many-legged creatures, and a few slimy ones. Includes beehives and ant hives, as well as the various types of "bug", centipedes, giant slugs, spiders, etc. Floor of the vault would have the "very sticky" room trait, as well as the "vibrates with life" trait.

You get the idea, I think. Note that many of the ideas above are based around special features, like pools, water, herbs, etc. Other things to consider basing vaults around include room effects (flickering lights room trait sounds like an interesting basis for a vault), traps, shops, etc.

One last idea for a special vault... the Royal Vault:

Contains five or six Royal Guardians, plus a heap of monsters of one of a certain set of races, including Ogres, Orcs, Goblins, Quicklings, Gnolls, Dark Elves, Trolls, Ratlings, or Humans (Barbarians, Thieves, Swordsmen, Assassins, etc). Choice of monster type would influence difficulty. Vault would not be connected to rest of level, requiring digging or teleportation to enter. Vault would contain a LOT of gold, as well as various weapons and armour.

[Arctic]

Greater golem vault sounds great. Stone, iron, steel, diamond and eternium ones would feel natural, but there's still more to choose from.
I tired to come up with a theme for mythical beings; let's call it djinnis' entourage: animated armors, gorgons, living walls, werewolf kings and djinnis.