How does the new stat potential system work?

[Citronvand]

So I was reading the changelog and noticed this http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=1117. I really like the suggestion so how does it work these days? For instance can Trolls train their strength to their max potential even though it is higher than 18? Does herb and corpses now take max potential into account instead of the arbitrary number 25?

Also, is there some ADOM guide or site that has been updated for 1.2.0? Ancarnia wiki has some updated info but it is far from complete.

[SirTheta]

Basically the only thing that has changed is that herbs & a few other things like undead corpses (which had better be fixed) now respect your potential max. You cannot train stats any higher than you could before.

[anon123]

How does the new stat potential system work?

Remember how herbs let you get your To and Wi from 9(12) to 25(25), getting your HP over double the previous amount and giving a better chance to survive energy rays and confusion attacks? Well... not anymore! Because that was scummy and overpowered!

Also, is there some ADOM guide or site that has been updated for 1.2.0? Ancarnia wiki has some updated info but it is far from complete.

There are multiple 1.2.0 spoiler threads in the forum, where new information gets posted on almost a daily basis as it is found. The issue tracker is also a source of interesting information.

[Citronvand]

Basically the only thing that has changed is that herbs & a few other things like undead corpses (which had better be fixed) now respect your potential max. You cannot train stats any higher than you could before.

A shame. Personally I think the stat increase should consider how close the stat is to the max potential and not just how high the stat is. I think the closer you get to the max potential, the harder it should be to increase. For example:

A troll with 18 Strength but a max potential of 40 should have it easier to increase his strength than a Hurthling with 15 strength and a max potential of 16. The Troll is quite weak for a troll and the hurthling is quite strong for a hurthling but the game doesn't take this into consideration. It should definitely be possible to increase for instance the strength more than 18 by carrying a lot of stuff IF you have a high max potential.

Otherwise the game punish races that excel in one stat while sucking in another. While races that has pretty average stats overall have it easier. It doesn't make sense and it makes the races feel less individual and fun.

In real life a weak person can increase his strength much faster in the beginning and then it goes slower and slower the closer he is to his max potential. It's like the game consider all races as humans for training purposes.

[mike3]

Interesting, but how do you keep the "how high it is" part from making it too hard to train even with a significantly higher potential?

[mike3]

A shame. Personally I think the stat increase should consider how close the stat is to the max potential and not just how high the stat is. I think the closer you get to the max potential, the harder it should be to increase. For example:

A troll with 18 Strength but a max potential of 40 should have it easier to increase his strength than a Hurthling with 15 strength and a max potential of 16. The Troll is quite weak for a troll and the hurthling is quite strong for a hurthling but the game doesn't take this into consideration. It should definitely be possible to increase for instance the strength more than 18 by carrying a lot of stuff IF you have a high max potential.

Otherwise the game punish races that excel in one stat while sucking in another. While races that has pretty average stats overall have it easier. It doesn't make sense and it makes the races feel less individual and fun.

In real life a weak person can increase his strength much faster in the beginning and then it goes slower and slower the closer he is to his max potential. It's like the game consider all races as humans for training purposes.

Interesting, but how do you prevent the "considering how high the stat is" from making it too hard to raise the stat higher even with an "excelling" potential and the stat still a good ways below it?

[Citronvand]

Interesting, but how do you prevent the "considering how high the stat is" from making it too hard to raise the stat higher even with an "excelling" potential and the stat still a good ways below it?

By making the game mainly focus on your current stat and your max potential when checking how easy/hard it is to increase that specific stat. Not some arbitrary number like 18 or 25. For example:

Strength

Burdened 50%
Strained 75%
Strained! 90%
Overburden 100%

Let me explain that. A troll that has 100 max potential on his strength could increase his strength by being burdened to 50% of his max potential. Which is 50 in this case. If he was strained he could increase his strength to 75 which is 75% of his max potential. Strained! gives his 90 strength and Overburdened can push his strength all the way to his max potential which is 100.

Another example, A hurthling that has 10 max potential on his strength could increase his strength by being burdened to 5, because that is 50% of his max potential. If he was strained he could increase his strength to 7 which is roughly 75% of his max potential. 9 if he was Strained! and finally 10 if he was Overburdened.

[SirTheta]

Sorry, but that's really dumb. Not letting everyone train their Strength to 18 is truly criminal because it determines carrying capacity. Allowing PCs to train it way higher by just being burdened/strained is incredibly unbalanced, just like allowing a Drake/Dwarf/etc PC to train To beyond 25 with morgia would be.

[Citronvand]

Sorry, but that's really dumb. Not letting everyone train their Strength to 18 is truly criminal because it determines carrying capacity. Allowing PCs to train it way higher by just being burdened/strained is incredibly unbalanced, just like allowing a Drake/Dwarf/etc PC to train To beyond 25 with morgia would be.

Let me rephrase your sentence: Not letting everyone train their Mana to 18 is truly criminal because it determines spellcasting capacity. Races are and should be different, some are strong while some make better casters, I don't see why Strength should have different rules than for instance mana. There is more options available than just increasing your carrying capacity by increasing your strength by being burdened. You could pick talents, use magic (Strength of Atlas), potions (Potions of Strength, Strength potential & attributes), girdles e.t.c. If you are a hurthling you should expect to have little strength just like you should expect to have low mana on a Troll.

I do not see why it should be unbalanced because you cannot increase it more than your max potential. Barely even that because you need to be overburdened to get to your max potential and that will abuse your dexterity which you might not wish. Only characters with truly high strength max potential could reach high strength. I could reach over 40 mana with my Dark Elf Necromancer since his max potential was that high. Why can't I do the same with Strength with a Troll?

[Soirana]

Remember how herbs let you get your To and Wi from 9(12) to 25(25), getting your HP over double the previous amount and giving a better chance to survive energy rays and confusion attacks? Well... not anymore! Because that was scummy and overpowered!

Really? I haven't much played after p8 but was under severe impression of
if stat potential is at x while stat at x-1, you could eat boatlaod of morgia [20+ let say] getting truckload of training points >> get stat increased, get potential increased with training overflow>> eat boatload of morgia again.... which means you need more herbs but end result is actually same.
If that is true I fail to see any fixing at all....