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Thread: Dwarven paladins and the unremarkable dungeon?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon123 View Post
    Also, if you can create darkness, use it! Many early-game threats don't see in it. You can berserk them safely or just run away.
    You can't berserk safely in darkness in pre13.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  2. #12

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    I think you still can berserk safely in darkness in pre5, but it's a moot point, because a dwarven paladin at low levels has something like a 1/8 chance to read a scroll of darkness with 50 percent literacy, even if you get lucky and ID it via a scroll shop. Or at least, that seems to be about the chance of successfully reading the scroll of information.

    Has anything been done about that since pre5? The scroll reading change just seems brutal.

    I do keep forgetting the tactics settings, though...could probably have saved me once or twice. Maybe I'd have hit that ratling warlord with the arrows.
    Last edited by Grumbledwarfskin; 04-08-2013 at 10:27 PM.

  3. #13
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    Tactics is very important. I think after the arrow keys, the function keys are pressed most by me.
    Learn to learn.

  4. #14
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    Play a game on ancardia.us.to so I can spec you.
    Also, log on to irc.freenode.net #adom so I can tease you.
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  5. #15

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    Well, thanks for the help, I've now gotten a dwarven paladin through the UD safely: I started skipping the rest once I got to the stairs around UD4 and made it through fine, and I set tactics to "agressive" and left them there most of the time. (Does "very aggressive" still give shield marks?). Also had a nice roll on the armor: (-1, -3) [-4, +8]...that's +1 to hit and +1 PV over normal plate mail, so taking off the gauntlets meant I had only -1 to hit.

    On level two or three of the UD I got lucky again, and found an adamantim flail, (0, 2d3+6). A weapon that does great damage, and that I can easily hit with since I started with a flail.

    I had to face another ratling warlord in the HMV, but fortunately it was inside the village this time, so when it disarmed me I was able to get the weapon back, rather than having it go in the water, or not have many legal places to fall other than where the ratling warlord is. Nearly still got me, but I eventually realized that berserk tactics was the way to go, and survived with ~20/80 HP.

    I still had a moderate amount of food, and HMV had three iron rations, so I bought them and when to the CoC to solve my food problems more permanently with a stack of cooked lizards.

    Next up was Keethrax and learning herbalism. First time I've killed Keethrax, mostly because one of the guides I've read says to generate him by reaching level 7, and then come back later, as you'll most likely die if you fight him at your level...but this time I didn't notice I'd reached level 7, and Keethrax showed up pretty quickly...it went like this: oh great, a cat in the first room on the level. Walk around it to the exit...huh, a dark sage. Is it hostile? Wait...it's Keethrax. I'm between a cat and a Keethrax. Guess I'll see if can kill Keetrax.

    Keethrax only got something like three spells off before dying, one of which was darkness, which didn't help him much since we were in a hallway. Picked up the body (which unfortunately didn't survive the trip back to Terinyo) and the amulet, and continued down the hall. At the end of the hall, I met an acid-breathing slug who kindly took care of my cat problem before dying (thankfully without dissolving anything), and then I decided it was time to leave, since I was at around 20 HP again.

    I'm still alive, taking a breather on my way to dwarf town, having just barely survived getting surrounded by a spider summoner in the big room. Had to leave almost everything I was planning to bring to dwarf town on the ground to get my speed back up and run away...though the summoner is dead so once my heath is back up, it's mostly a matter of luring the spiders to the stairs and clearing them out, then, hopefully, finding the down stairs before the place fills up with red worms.

  6. #16
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    I'm gonna comment a couple of things that came to my mind when reading your report, perhaps you may find something useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumbledwarfskin View Post
    I set tactics to "aggressive" and left them there most of the time. (Does "very aggressive" still give shield marks?)
    Yes, it gives shield marks too. I tend to play on aggressive most of the time, but at some point in the game I switch to very aggressive in order to keep getting shield marks. However, when fighting certain monsters, i.e. paralyzing monsters, I usually switch to defensive, in order to minimize the damage taken if a paralyzing hit hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumbledwarfskin View Post
    I had to face another ratling warlord (...) Nearly still got me, but I eventually realized that berserk tactics was the way to go, and survived with ~20/80 HP.
    Against these kind of monsters my advice is to use missiles or wands (you can fight on coward with the latter). Fighting at Melee is some kind of gamble (although you still can heal with prayers) and is the kind of risks a player should avoid in the first place, IMO. In particular, there is a maneuver you can use in the HMV. You can lure the monster to the right side of the map (outside the village) and then leave and get back in from the left side. Of course to do this you have to be faster than the monster in question, which is a good example of why a player shouldn't be burdened / strained and a good argument in favor of speed talents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumbledwarfskin View Post
    Next up was Keethrax and learning herbalism. First time I've killed Keethrax, mostly because one of the guides I've read says to generate him by reaching level 7, and then come back later, as you'll most likely die if you fight him at your level...
    I usually do Keethrax when I have some means to kill him at range and have a source of light (not absolutely necessary, but highly convenient). He can be killed at melee, although he can drain stats, which isn't cool if you are unlucky. About generating him early in the game, well, you can do that, it doesn't harm, but it is by no means necessary nor a standard practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumbledwarfskin View Post
    I'm between a cat and a Keethrax. Guess I'll see if can kill Keetrax.
    Playing the game trying to avoid cats is fun, but sometimes, situationally, it may become a big handicap. Therefore, and given that the cat ring isn't what's gonna make the difference between a win or a lose, when in a minimum danger, I would just kill the cat and play it safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumbledwarfskin View Post
    Picked up the body (which unfortunately didn't survive the trip back to Terinyo) and the amulet, and continued down the hall.
    If you want to get the corpse back to Terinyo, you'd better go immediately. You can always come back later to finish the last level of the dungeon. Dipping the corpse in holy water is another useful way of carrying these corpses back to the druid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumbledwarfskin View Post
    then I decided it was time to leave, since I was at around 20 HP again.
    Try to anticipate. Get used to retreat and w5 back to full health often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumbledwarfskin View Post
    just barely survived getting surrounded by a spider summoner in the big room.
    The big room is a dangerous place, although it doesn't look like it in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumbledwarfskin View Post
    Had to leave almost everything I was planning to bring to dwarf town on the ground to get my speed back up and run away...
    Good move, although not being burdened/strained in the first place was better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumbledwarfskin View Post
    it's mostly a matter of luring the spiders to the stairs and clearing them out, then, hopefully, finding the down stairs before the place fills up with red worms.
    Looks like you have an interesting task ahead of you, best of luck!
    1 ULE, 1 UNE, 18 regular endings. Won with every race. Trying to win with every class. Never won with farmer, merchant, mindcrafter and thief.

  7. #17
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    So I decided to roll a dwarven paladin to try, and took notes along the way (I died, but will try again later):

    Month of the Salamander

    Started with a battle axe, no shield

    Fighting in Aggressive mode.

    Leveled up to 3 killing rats, bats, kobolds, etc. ran away from a claw bug.

    Encountered a wererat, had to kill a bunch of rats, leveled up to 5, now I am worried I need to move on quickly, the wererat room didn’t have the up stair case, so it must be behind the claw bug. Dang.

    Ran back to where the claw bug was, had a gang of hostiles chasing me, claw bug was gone, found stair case and ran up it. Only a bat followed. I saw the blanket past the stairs, but I left it.

    UD:1 encountered karmic lizard. No ammo. Ran. Put a door between me and him. My speed is only 90 as I am walking around strained to train my strength.

    Encountered a Fairy Dragon, ran again closing doors.

    Found a mithril flail did not equip yet.

    Found some rocks, went back to kill karmic lizard. Was not able to hit it. Ran to UD:2 (I am now level 6)

    Sat in a corner to heal. Sensed a tension room. Running low on food, decide to open doors, found large tension room full of goblins. Got a large adamantium shield. Changed Tactics to Very Aggressive. Gorged myself on goblin meat.

    UD:3 found old forge. Found a wand a digging, used its only charge IDing it. Leveled up to 7.

    UD:4 fell in a pit viper trap, managed not to get poisoned, no corpse drop. Ran into an ooze, stupidly fought it (because I had the flail as a back up), ruined my axe. Switched to my mithril flail it was cursed. Fire Trapped door almost killed me. Found a corner to heal in. Found a halberd… with my shield, probably won’t be switching to it, but grabbed it anyway. Encounter Giant Spiders. Found mithril ring mail. Switched it out with my armor. UGH! Cursed worm-ridden! Read a scroll hoping it is uncurse… nope ID’d scroll of light. Get a spider corpse drop, decide not to eat it. Can’t afford poisoned right now. Get poisoned anyway from the next spider. Get sick from my armor. The end looks near friends. Drink my only non-water potion. Nothing. Down to 6 HP, found the elven wizard that has been summoning the spiders. Pray for healing. Poisoned went away… still sick and taking damage from fever. Got poisoned again. Down to single digits again. Prayed again. Ground rumbles. Down to single digits again. The next fever is sure to kill me. Time to try equipping anything I have to see if I have anything that can help. Nothing. The water I have was not blessed.

    UD:5 I don’t sense an altar, and the upstair case is right next to the down. So I skip this level.

    UD:6 Fireball trap kills me.

    Upon my death, I see that UD:6 has a lawful altar, and I had two more water in my inventory… if I had only gotten there!




    edit: I started a second one now, and hit level six, and realized that the paladin's level six ability would have helped me in that game. I feel so stupid.
    Last edited by dezbend; 04-09-2013 at 05:24 PM.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by dezbend View Post
    Leveled up to 3 killing rats, bats, kobolds, etc. ran away from a claw bug.
    Did you have a choice about any of those? As a dwarven paladin, in my experience you have so much PV you don't need to kill anything in the small cave unless it can pierce armor (the claw bug) or there's no way to walk around it. Or it's a summoner/spawner. At least until you're ready to leave, at which point I suggest keeping close to the exit and killing things until you hit level 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by dezbend View Post
    Encountered a wererat, had to kill a bunch of rats, leveled up to 5, now I am worried I need to move on quickly, the wererat room didn’t have the up stair case, so it must be behind the claw bug. Dang.

    Ran back to where the claw bug was, had a gang of hostiles chasing me, claw bug was gone, found stair case and ran up it. Only a bat followed. I saw the blanket past the stairs, but I left it.
    There's a decent chance of a river in the UD. If I wasn't specifically afraid of something chasing me, I'd have gone for the blanket as quite possibly the safer move.

    Quote Originally Posted by dezbend View Post
    UD:1 encountered karmic lizard. No ammo. Ran. Put a door between me and him. My speed is only 90 as I am walking around strained to train my strength.

    Encountered a Fairy Dragon, ran again closing doors.

    ...

    Found some rocks, went back to kill karmic lizard. Was not able to hit it.
    On Berserk, right? There's zero chance otherwise, if your armor is giving -3 to ranged to-hit...you'd have to take off your armor. Actually, for a karmic lizard, with the liesure to prepare for it in advance, taking off the armor might even be the right call. It'd be a big gamble though.

    Quote Originally Posted by dezbend View Post
    Sat in a corner to heal. Sensed a tension room. Running low on food, decide to open doors, found large tension room full of goblins. Got a large adamantium shield. Changed Tactics to Very Aggressive. Gorged myself on goblin meat.
    Did you grab rations from Munxip before the trip? I feel like it's almost essential, since you don't have food preservation and can't eat orcs. Though a tension room of delicacies certainly helps a lot. If Munxip has them, you can often afford two blessed and one uncursed large rations, eat the uncursed one immediately to save on weight. The blessed cost a little more, but they're worth two in terms of satiation, so you get more for your money (not to mention weight).

    Quote Originally Posted by dezbend View Post
    Found mithril ring mail. Switched it out with my armor. UGH! Cursed worm-ridden!
    Didn't know that stuff existed. Terrifying.

    Your story is pretty epic. I'm not sure you could have used that class power though...your deity needs to be "very pleased" for you to use them, but only starts out "pleased" at the start of the game, so you'd probably have been able to use it if you got to that altar, but not before.



    As for Artum, the dragon-born dwarven paladin, he's made it past the big room, leaving most of the spiders still there. Reaching level 10 of the CoC, he felt very excited...then found a lawful altar, and felt very, very excited...an entire vault to sacrifice to Morodwyn!

    But first, to ID the weapons: turned out to have a nice haul, switching to a large adamantium hammer (0, 1d10+9) and adding a mace of disruption (+2, 2d4+2) as a tactical option...if I understand correctly, it slays undead, meaning triple to quintuple damage, i.e. 40 average damage vs. undead on normal tactics, given my +3 damage from skill. That should come in handy quite soon. Also have a second adamantium flail that is cursed and remains unID'd.

    First monster in the vault is a quickling. Suddenly I feel a bit less excited, but it comes into melee range and was taken out in a couple rounds.

    With my excitement quenched, I headed on down to dwarf town on level 11 at that point.

    Thrundarr calls me a coward to my face: "I want ye to slay a large spider to prove your valor."

    It was a tactical retreat! I would have died! I actually used up my final prayer, *and* drank a random potion, which very fortunately turned out to be extra healing, or I wouldn't even be standing here!

    Fine, I'll go kill a spider.
    Last edited by Grumbledwarfskin; 04-10-2013 at 12:00 AM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumbledwarfskin View Post
    a mace of disruption (+2, 2d4+2) as a tactical option...if I understand correctly, it slays undead, meaning triple to quintuple damage, i.e. 40 average damage vs. undead on normal tactics, given my +3 damage from skill.
    I'm afraid that such high damage multipliers only apply to slaying ammunition (that's why it's so powerful). Melee critical hits can only deal double damage. Still, a blessed mace of disruption, with weapon skill and Strength bonuses, should be pretty useful in both graveyards and any undead vaults you might encounter.

    I share your frustration, summoners in the Big Room are a true nuisance, even with wizards who can just set tactics to coward and spam bolts.
    "And light there be!"

  10. #20
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    What is the benefit of reaching the HMV so early in the game?
    You don't have to be taught all that much; you just need to acquire more cautiousness, an almost healthy amount of sheer paranoia, and a more fine-tuned "OH SHIT RUN!" reflex. ~Silfir

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