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Thread: Guidebook work

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    I'm fairly certain that all classes get haggling, first aid, and listening, not just those listed in section 0.1.1.

    It may be worth including a section discussing the effects and costs of prayers.

    The PC is only required to visit the pyramid and the maze for the first time during the specified level periods. Once the PC has visited those areas once, they may return at any level. This means that PCs should always have the opportunity to visit the pyramid, since they may simply enter at level 13, leave right away, and come back when they feel strong enough--even if that happens to be level 25.

    On D50, I believe it is only necessary to kill the Balors on the level to ensure the gate remains closed.

    [edit]: On a more extensive note, I would love to see the monster table include information such as which monsters see invisible, see in darkness, elemental resistances, and what types of slaying ammo they are vulnerable to.
    Snipped the stuff that has been incorporated, thanks. Section 0.1.1 is not a comprehensive list of all skills, only the skills each race or class is trained in. This is mentioned in the text just above the tables.

    Prayers, I agree. Will be quite a bit of work.

    Re: pyramid, surely this can't be correct. Enter once at exp lvl 13 and it stays open all game? Can't be, unless I'm *really* misremembering.

    D50 and balors. I have never tested this myself. Anyone confirm?

    I like the monster table ideas. That table is going to get big. It has five fields already. Is it going to get ridiculous with four or five more? Or maybe make two tables?
    ADOM Guidebook: http://adomgb.info/

  2. #92
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    A few other things:

    0.12.3 You write that "Vaults become more common" while the PC is cursed or doomed. I am almost positive that this is incorrect. For example, save-scummed characters will generally find the same dungeon features (although not always the same composition) on a newly spawned (non-ID) level, regardless of cursing/dooming, which strongly suggests that these features are pre-determined. I seem to recall reading that dungeon features are in fact determined that the start of the game, but I would assume this was code-mined or at very least unverifiable.

    In the same section, you mention that Dooming increases food consumption, but testing doesn't seem to bear this out: it takes approximately 900 turns to reach "Hungry" status while walking upon immediately starting the game. If you retry the experiment, except first pray until doomed, the number of turns is the same. Dooming does increase the corruption rate, however.

    CORRECTION: The Candle starsign gives 2 points of health every 12 turns. This is more than twice as good as maxed out healing skill.

    [edit]Yes, the Pyramid text is correct. Otherwise you could leave the orbs there and never get them back... I've used this trick numerous times when I've found myself in need of a spare pickaxe or climbing set. Here's a screenshot of a level 37 necromancer I had kicking around that I brought into the pyramid.

    Code:
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                     Screenshot
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    
        ###########
        #.........#      ############
        #  #.<.##.#      #..#.......#
       ##.##...##.########.####.###.####
       #..........^^^^(...^####.#......#
       ##################.^^....######.#
                        ####.#########.#
                           #.##........#                 #
                           #.##.###.####            ####.####  ###       ######
                           #.##   #....#            #........  #.#        ..#.#
                           ..#    ####.###          #.##########.#        #.#(#
                           ###     #.^...# ######## #.#######.##.##########.#.#
                                   #.###.###....&#37;.# #....*.##.....^...........#
                                   #.  #.....####(###.####.##.#############.###
                                   ..  #.....#  #.....#  #.##.###      .....#
                                   ##  #..@..#  ###.###  #......#      .#####
                                       #.....# ....^#    ########
                                       ####### ######
    
    Gilgamesh     St:45  Le:48  Wi:37  Dx:38  To:38  Ch:28  Ap:14  Ma:35  Pe:41 C
    DV/PV: 68/57   H: 558(558)    P: 478(478)    Exp: 37/6822283    PL1   LE: 1000
    Satiated Berserk
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Character Information
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Gilgamesh    St:45  Le:48  Wi:37  Dx:38  To:38  Ch:28  Ap:14  Ma:35  Pe:41
    C
    DV/PV: 68/57   H: 558(558)   P: 478(478)   Exp: 37/6822283   M: 169622
    Last edited by JellySlayer; 06-19-2009 at 01:02 AM.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    A few other things:

    0.12.3 You write that "Vaults become more common" while the PC is cursed or doomed. I am almost positive that this is incorrect. For example, save-scummed characters will generally find the same dungeon features (although not always the same composition) on a newly spawned (non-ID) level, regardless of cursing/dooming, which strongly suggests that these features are pre-determined. I seem to recall reading that dungeon features are in fact determined that the start of the game, but I would assume this was code-mined or at very least unverifiable.

    In the same section, you mention that Dooming increases food consumption, but testing doesn't seem to bear this out: it takes approximately 900 turns to reach "Hungry" status while walking upon immediately starting the game. If you retry the experiment, except first pray until doomed, the number of turns is the same. Dooming does increase the corruption rate, however.

    CORRECTION: The Candle starsign gives 2 points of health every 12 turns. This is more than twice as good as maxed out healing skill.

    [edit]Yes, the Pyramid text is correct. Otherwise you could leave the orbs there and never get them back... I've used this trick numerous times when I've found myself in need of a spare pickaxe or climbing set.
    The text re: dooming is out of date even with respect to the GB itself. *Greater* vaults are definitely decided at the start of the game, easily proven by savescumming. I can't recall about lesser vaults. The invariance of food consumption with dooming or cursing (and all other intrinsics including invisibility) was proven by Malte Helmert and is in Appendix G.

    Will correct re: Candle.

    I'm still having a hard time getting my mind around the Pyramid. I realize your point about the orbs. The pyramid stays open all game. So you can take on Rehetep at exp lvl 50? I know it stays open if you've defeated Rehetep. Or would the orbs jump back into your pack if you tried to leave them behind? Thinking out loud here.
    Last edited by Andy Williams; 06-19-2009 at 01:27 AM. Reason: spelling
    ADOM Guidebook: http://adomgb.info/

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Williams View Post
    I'm still having a hard time getting my mind around the Pyramid. I realize your point about the orbs. The pyramid stays open all game. So you can take on Rehetep at exp lvl 50? I know it stays open if you've defeated Rehetep. Or would the orbs jump back into your pack if you tried to leave them behind? Thinking out loud here.
    It may be that it only stays open once Rehetep is killed. I'll admit, I've never tested that scenario. I don't know about the orbs; teleportation of items is the normal way such things are dealt with. I could probably ADOMBot a character through the various hoops to test this in short order I suppose. I'll get back to you about this.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    It may be that it only stays open once Rehetep is killed. I'll admit, I've never tested that scenario. I don't know about the orbs; teleportation of items is the normal way such things are dealt with. I could probably ADOMBot a character through the various hoops to test this in short order I suppose. I'll get back to you about this.
    I'm almost certain that it only stays open if Rehetep is killed. My problem with testing is that I've moved to 64-bit Windows. All my saves are in DOS-mode ADOM. No longer supported. So I either have to fire up an old machine or figure out how to get DOSBox working. I wasn't successful on my first and only attempt.
    ADOM Guidebook: http://adomgb.info/

  6. #96
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    I think you're right. I rolled a wizard, ADOMBotted him all spells, 99 in all stats, and fire immunity. Cleared the ToEF and got the fire orb at level 14. Dropped orb in pyramid, left and levelled to 18. Pyramid is now closed. The orb is not in my inventory. I would want to confirm this with a non-ADOMbotted character to be sure, but it looks like it may be worth noting that it appears that the orbs will be permanently lost if left in the pyramid after it closes...
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    I think you're right. I rolled a wizard, ADOMBotted him all spells, 99 in all stats, and fire immunity. Cleared the ToEF and got the fire orb at level 14. Dropped orb in pyramid, left and levelled to 18. Pyramid is now closed. The orb is not in my inventory. I would want to confirm this with a non-ADOMbotted character to be sure, but it looks like it may be worth noting that it appears that the orbs will be permanently lost if left in the pyramid after it closes...
    Very, very cool discovery. That is the first way I remember hearing of losing an orb since gamma 15 where monsters would not necessarily drop carried items when killed, including chaos orbs. I really expected it to jump back into the PC's pack.
    ADOM Guidebook: http://adomgb.info/

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    I think you're right. I rolled a wizard, ADOMBotted him all spells, 99 in all stats, and fire immunity. Cleared the ToEF and got the fire orb at level 14. Dropped orb in pyramid, left and levelled to 18. Pyramid is now closed. The orb is not in my inventory. I would want to confirm this with a non-ADOMbotted character to be sure, but it looks like it may be worth noting that it appears that the orbs will be permanently lost if left in the pyramid after it closes...
    In theory this would be possible with the Minotaur Maze as well? I haven't tested the upper level limit myself, but according to the GB it has a max level. If you enter it, drop the orb, leave, and then achieve a level that is too high, would you also lose the orb?

  9. #99
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    I don't see why it would be any different with the maze than the pyramid.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  10. #100
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    You can also lose orbs if you go to one of the areas with wilderness-type borders (e.g. terinyo) and shoot them into the very edge of the screen. They'll remain on a square that cannot be stepped on.

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