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Thread: Guidebook work

  1. #141
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    Updates on ultra endings:

    4.1 - Guidebook states that demon slaying stuff works on Andy. Should say that humanoid works too, and that blessing is recommended. Generally its advised to use missiles, not melee. Standing out of direct line means most of his attacks are useless, and obviously he has no chance to paralyse or stat drain you from a distance.

    Should maybe mention that he often summons purple jellies or other chaos critters. Since spells are meant to make him faster it's generally best to have some crystals of fire or a wand of fireballs around to dispatch them.

    4.2 - Chaos God ending is also the only special ending possible if you accidentally get crowned chaotic before level 45 (happened to me on my first victory). Under 4.2.1 the PC does *not* need to be wielding the Sceptre when killing Andy for the regular chaos god ending. In fact it's best to drop the bloody corrupting thing as soon as you enter the plane along with the other chaos artifacts.

    4.3 - The difficulties of changing alignment are a little overstated these days. Even at level 50 it's easy to get back to N= by saccing single gold pieces at grey altars (with the right precautions of course). Getting to L+ is also very easy if you have a pet and a healing spell. It pays to think ahead with things, but it's really not uncommon for ultras to do this without major trouble. The "update 2002" stuff looks extremely antiquated now.

    4.3.1.3.1 - Perhaps worth noting that the crumpled scroll is not waterproof, so if you don't have a waterproof blanket by this stage you may be in trouble. However if you identify it (just 'r'ead it) then you can use magical writing sets to scribe as many more crumpled scrolls as you want! Unfortunately you can only get one trident though...

    Another little caveat is that if you want to get a UNE or UCG but don't want to deal with the corruption requirement, you can technically enter the chaos gate as a prospective ULE (crowned L+, no corruption necessary) and become a fallen champion whilst on the chaos plane. As long as you're N or C when killing Andy it doesn't matter if you're crowned or not. This is obviously a suboptimal method though...

    A further important caveat is the "chaos wretch" ending. If you kill Andy and are not chaotic and are not wielding the trident of the red rooster then you won't get a UNE or ULE. Instead you get a message about energies flooding out of his corpse and overpowering you, turning you into a miserable and pathetic chaos wretch. Thus it's very important to remember to be wielding the trident when delivering the final blow to Andy (especially important to beastfighters for example). Otherwise you could get what is probably the worst ending possible in the game (yes, I'm still bitter ).
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  2. #142
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    3.3 The Casino

    It should definitely be added in that there are safe ways to get everything you want from the casino.

    First is to gamble. With a girdle of greed and a heavy weight on the keyboard you can get everything you want. Worth noting that though the gambling takes place in a single turn you can get stunned by having a long gambling session (best to wear stun resistance items or pray afterwards). You can also get set to the Very Hungry status, though you won't starve to death from a long gambling session. Remember to bring food when playing the slots!

    The big guard will block the stairs if you win. However usually if you play another round (separate turn) and *lose* then he will move away from the stairs. No need to teleport him.

    Then, of course, there is the five finger discount. There are two known ways of angering the shopkeeper without summoning guards or getting yourself cursed. Firstly is ventriloquism - confusing the shopkeeper will make him hostile, but he won't alert the guards or curse you. Best to do this in darkness so he doesn't kill you the very next round though. The second method is using a wand of far slaying from a very far distance (about 15 squares or more). If it hits him then again he will become hostile without summons or curse. Both methods are still risky since the shopkeeper is difficult to deal with - it's best to grab all the items you need, anger the keeper, and then teleport straight to the stairs. I've not tested these methods with a lawful character, but with a neutral char both ways work to make him hostile, not summon guards, not make the other guards hostile or block the stairs, not curse and not cause any alignment change.

    It might also be worth noting that for trolls attacking the shopkeeper is a great (though risky) way of getting quite a bit of xp.
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  3. #143
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    3.6 The Cat Lord

    Surprised you don't mention how to kill him...

    Firstly it should be noted that the cat lord is a high xp monster. Killing cats may not be such a bad thing if you prefer a few million xp over the little ring.

    The cat lord is vulnerable to poison, blinding, stunning, webs, paralysis, and humanoid slaying. However he is fast, and moves faster (as if he's wearing SLBs). He also tends to be invisible, so it's best to wear the AMW when entering his level.

    If you want to melee him then you *need* to disable him. Wand of paralysis is great, though it tends to get shrugged a lot. He'll also shrug off webs, but then will get stuck in the webs themselves. Stunning bolts tend to get shrugged, but with enough attempts will stick. Arrows of darkness or thunder work great, as do throwing potions of blindness or cursed potions of invisibility. After disabling him start hammering hard with your favourite humanoid slayer till he falls. Keep a close eye in case he breaks out of the disability though, and keep a good healing source on standby. A few blasts from a wand of poison can help shorten the fight a bit.

    To missile him I'd recommend getting him stuck in webs and peppering him full of humanoid slaying ammo that has been dipped in poison. It can be best to lure him to a different level so you can teleport around freely. That way you can fill a corridor with webs and keep teleporting to each end of it, shooting at him as he keeps getting stuck.

    Bolts spells aren't greatly effective on him, though persistence may take him down eventually. Ball spells work beautifully though. You can even just disable him using one of the above methods and keep using a well charged wand of fireballs. He tends to panic fairly easily, in which case improved fireball can be used to great effect to take him down. In this case it's best to target the spell at a square next to him - if the centre of the explosion is aimed straight at him then he'll stop panicking and come back at you. Aim next to him and he'll stay cowering in a corner whilst you slowly roast him to death.

    If you have killed cats and just want to avoid the fearsome cat lord then it may be worth luring him to another level so you can teleport around him (though it does mean having to put up with a round of attacks as you go up or down the stairs).
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  4. #144
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    3.2 The Eternal Guardian

    Killing him is not altogether pointless, since it gives a lot of xp. Some people deliberate farm the EG incarnations for levels. He takes a long time to kill, but since he's so slow you can easily use hit and run tactics. Humanoid slayers or lots of ball castings will eventually take him down.

    I'd also change "a quick teleport" to "an immediate teleport" for passing him aggressively. Wait more than one turn and another guardian will appear and block the stairs, giving the PC twice the headache.

    2.62.2 I only got 3 potions of gain attribute from the black unicorn once. It may be because I was NC at the time (though accepting the reward brought me down to C).

    2.52.2 Malakai, though tough, is a regular chaos knight. He cannot see in darkness and is vulnerable to humanoid and demon slaying weapons.

    2.23 The player must enter the stone circle within the very last hour of Darknight - ie, between the hours of 23:00 and 0:00. Repeatedly pressing > is bad advice, since you can go from 22:50 to 0:02, missing the window by a small margin. It's best to wear SLBs and walk in wilderness squares next to the stone circle with a very close eye on the clock and how much time each move takes so you can calculate your steps exactly.

    2.23.1 Also worth noting that Keriax has one of the strongest confusing attacks in the game, regularly confusing high Wi PCs with confusion resistance. He is vulnerable to confusion himself though.

    2.21.7 The Oracle can be safely dispatched with any missile weapon, since she can't move from her little island. However it's best to stand out of direct line to avoid her energy rays. The get the best benefit from her corpse bless it and have Le under 20. Also have a nearby altar.

    2.19 The Tower of Eternal Flames - currently not working? I only get a blank page.

    2.18.1 Kherab also has incredibly fast regen. He's not able to see invis, but the regen and bolt-shrugging make it difficult to take him down.

    2.13 You can wear 1 blessed ring of the fish or 2 cursed rings to get full water protection. 1 blessed ring is quite handy wince you can equip it and then bless it for removal later. Swimming is not necessary, though I think it increases movement speed in the lair (which is handy for dealing with the monsters). Invisibility should be recommended in entering the lair, since the elementals and giant dragon turtles can be quite lethal otherwise, especially at low levels. Shissy is vulnerable to darkness, but will still panic and teleport away in darkness. She'll also frequently panic and attack back in darkness if cornered. The darkness thing is mostly useful for robbing the lair - darken the stairs and darkness the main lair (or the specific item you wish to steal). Pick up what you want and teleport the hell out of there.
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  5. #145
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    > he won't enter any square 2 or less squares from the borders...

    It is due to my status as a mentally handicapped person that
    I mention the tactic, but forgot to mention how to achieve it.
    You must order a companion to attack him as he is close to
    the map border. The PC then switched places with the pet, and
    the MM will come to stand on the border. Careful with pet
    type though, as if it's too weak it will die in one hit.

    > Gorgon breath also has a range of 2 (always 2 in my experience),

    Never thought of this before, but a gorgon + fluff ball + water
    trap = unlimited wands. I wonder how abusable this would be.
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  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    The Guidebook has the unided names of a few artifacts listed wrongly. "Fine leather armour" and "rune-covered heavy mace" are the only two I'm sure of - in the game they will be unidentified as simply "leather armour" and "heavy mace", and won't get those prefixes until fully IDed. NC can only be noticed easily from its odd weight, Purifier cannot be noticed at all (so all heavy maces should be picked up and identified).
    When pointing out mistakes, it helps me immensely if you identify *where* in the GB the mistake is, so I don't have to search. NC's unid'd name is correct in Appendix A. Where is it wrong? Purifier has been corrected in Appendix B. Is it listed elsewhere incorrectly?
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  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezur View Post
    Andy, do you incorporate ADOMBot-aided research into the guidebook?
    Discover with ADOMBot, verify in a real game is best I think. Isn't there some doubt about whether things work exactly the same?
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  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    Section 2.5.6 , about Glod. I just had a high-level gnome archer kill him using sulphur spit from the corruption. Teleporting him out of his shop works, btw. I then proceeded to try to make him follow me out of the village, but being invisible was a disadvantage, so I though I could try spitting him. He didn't become hostile towards me, didn't become aware of my location, just died(he did "scream in a rage" at each hit, but that was it.
    Then some muscular dwarves got summoned, but they couldn't see me. The only other notable thing was how Waldenbrook became hostile, so I had to kill him. The villagers, the elder, the priest, none of these were affected by what I'd done. Thundarr even assigned me the final quest, the one to slay the demon, and he later thanked me after saving the game, telling me to go home. :-)

    So there you have it, a bit of information related to Glod and something about the spit ability of drakelings and those corrupted properly.
    Incorporated. Out of curiosity, if Waldenbrook was hostile while the rest of the town wasn't, were the townspeople attacking Waldenbrook?
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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Williams View Post
    Incorporated. Out of curiosity, if Waldenbrook was hostile while the rest of the town wasn't, were the townspeople attacking Waldenbrook?
    I didn't get a chance to notice, I just killed him, worried that he might be brutally powerful. Actually I'd been WAY too conservative with my archer, and he absolutely destroyed everything in his sight by that point. Waldy took something like 7-10 normal quarrels, IIRC.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    4.2 - Chaos God ending is also the only special ending possible if you accidentally get crowned chaotic before level 45 (happened to me on my first victory). Under 4.2.1 the PC does *not* need to be wielding the Sceptre when killing Andy for the regular chaos god ending. In fact it's best to drop the bloody corrupting thing as soon as you enter the plane along with the other chaos artifacts.

    4.3 - The difficulties of changing alignment are a little overstated these days. Even at level 50 it's easy to get back to N= by saccing single gold pieces at grey altars (with the right precautions of course). Getting to L+ is also very easy if you have a pet and a healing spell. It pays to think ahead with things, but it's really not uncommon for ultras to do this without major trouble. The "update 2002" stuff looks extremely antiquated now.

    A further important caveat is the "chaos wretch" ending. If you kill Andy and are not chaotic and are not wielding the trident of the red rooster then you won't get a UNE or ULE. Instead you get a message about energies flooding out of his corpse and overpowering you, turning you into a miserable and pathetic chaos wretch. Thus it's very important to remember to be wielding the trident when delivering the final blow to Andy (especially important to beastfighters for example). Otherwise you could get what is probably the worst ending possible in the game (yes, I'm still bitter ).
    Is 45 the exp lvl req for the TotRR? You sure about the Sceptre? If so that's new at some point. At least in the gammas, killing AD without wielding the SoC resulted in the chaos wretch ending - I've done it.

    4.3 is going to be completely rewritten.
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