Page 4 of 64 FirstFirst 123456781454 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 631

Thread: Guidebook work

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    5,067

    Default

    >> I re-downloaded the GB from the official site just now, and still

    Well, silly me. I downloaded the compiled version straight to my
    HD. As it turns out, the one on the web is more up-to-date. Oh well,
    I suppose I'll have to read through it on-line. Thanks soirana.


    EDIT: and boy it's big.


    I started out typing out random thoughts, but they were too scattered
    to do any good. I went back and organized them in order of appearance
    in the GB. Hope that helps, but there is still a bit of out-of-order
    stuff I just threw in at the end : )


    0.1.1 General characteristics
    Races, classes and their combination

    To my knowledge, it is a recent discovery that bard skill number is
    incorrect. From Grey's bard guide:

    "The manual states that they get more skills than other classes ? this is
    lies! My testing indicates that bards normally get between 4 and 11
    non-guaranteed skills, with 7 being the average"

    Maybe this is kinda small, but it is largely unknown.


    > A PC that trains a given skill due to both race and class will be especially
    > proficient with that skill.

    This info is highly suspect in ADOM 1.1.1.
    --------------

    --------------
    0.1.3 Special considerations
    > Drakelings -

    No mention of acid spit?
    This is a pretty important fact, as it gives a high powered way for
    any class to deal with tough monsters in the early game, such as
    vortices. I hear tell that some knucklehead actually beat the entire
    game using nothing but drakeling acid spit...

    Also, I think it was previously undocumented that bards get two free
    skill advances per level. This is really helpful for trolls and orcs,
    who have great skill sets, but a lousy learning stats. Would this be
    a good place to mention that, or is it too small a detail?
    ------------------

    ------------------
    0.2.2 Changing alignment

    Please mention that sacrificing 'evil' artifacts will give a lawful
    boost to one's alignment. By 'evil' I mean the Crown of Science,
    the Ancient Scythe, etc... This is very important to PC's that
    are trying to get (pre)crowned as a non-lawful. It's a very nasty
    surprise to inadvertantly switch one's alignment to L in the middle
    of a marathon saccing session.

    Also please mention the fact that, when saccing to change one's
    alignment, a lonely 1 gold piece per sac is just as effective as 100.

    One final thing, maybe mention the tactic of intentionally irritating
    a diety with repeated prayers for the purpose of getting some item
    dusted. I've used that trick a number of times, and wish I would have
    read about it earlier than I did.

    ---------------------

    ----------------------
    0.4 Skills - description and usefulness

    > Alchemy

    Please mention the use of offensive alchemy. The power of the explosion
    is related to the skill training, with lower levels creating more
    powerful explosions.

    Also please mention the fact that when the skill reaches 100, only
    blessed potions can be brewed. This is very important because blessed
    potions of deafness can behave very strangely. I don't know if it is
    as bug, but most of the time they do absolutely nothing, which is a
    real pain if one is depending on it to pass the banshee, but sometimes
    they will permenantly deafen the PC.

    > can be used every turn to fight sickness. This can be a life saver.

    Either I misunderstand this, or it's wrong. I've never noticed any
    benefit from applying first aid to sickness, other than training
    the skill.

    > Gardening - For farmers, of course.

    That's minimal to say the least. Please mention the fact that one can
    not train this skill by planting regular seeds, only herb seeds. Also
    please mention the fact that early herb farming can be an enormously
    powerful tactic. Also, please mention the fact that planting herb seeds
    on ANY level will indeed make that level herb sustaining.

    > Find Weakness - Very nice increase to critical hits.

    Maybe mention that it stacks with slaying weapons, and is the ONLY
    way to get critical hits with non-prefixed ammo, like rocks, coins,
    and regular 1d6 arrows.

    > Gemology - Gems are found and some identified solely depending on this
    > skill. Without it, gems will not be found when mining. Exploitable.

    It's occuring to me that what I really want is for my 'sell your skills'
    guide to be posted in the GB. *kidding*

    > Metallurgy - Essential for weaponsmiths.

    Even posted a humerous poem about this one. If there is info on exactly
    what it does, please post it, if not, maybe mention that it's effects
    are currently unknown.

    > Mining - High level in Mining helps stop pickaxes from breaking.

    Also, it reduces the number of game turns spent digging.
    ------------

    -------------
    0.5 Spells - description and usefulness

    Please mention that some spells stack. This makes it much more pleasant
    to work with them in the game, and a lot of players just don't bother
    with them because they don't like to continually recast them all the
    time. Included in stacking spells are: bless, strength of Atlas,
    invisibility, and farsight.

    Strength Of Atlas / Lordly Might (W + E) * 20

    I remember Soirana once mentioning that it's magnitude was Ma * 1000,
    but that may have been code dived info.
    -------------

    ---------
    0.6.1.1 Exercising stats naturally
    > Strained and especially Strained! for too long probably abuses the Dexterity stat.

    Not even a little.

    > Willpower - no known way to exercise naturally

    Cast spells while confused, but that was code-dived.

    > Dexterity - no known way to exercise naturally

    Throwing boomerangs, but that was originally code-dived as well, but
    has since been 're-discovered' in a non-code dived way, so I say
    include it.
    ---------------

    ---------------
    0.7 Weapon skills

    It is a recent discovery that critical hits yield double skill marks.
    I don't know if that's worth including though.
    ---------------
    0.9.5 Strategies for dealing with particularly annoying monsters

    Darkness is mentioned as a good way of dealing with dopplegangers,
    but it is also good for mimics, and vortices. Why aren't vortices
    mentioned as annoying? : )
    ---------------
    --------------
    Section 0.10.1 corruption

    unholy aura:
    > Note that invisible PCs do not suffer the effects of this corruption:

    Indeed they do suffer. I can say for 100% certain that they do
    in the quickling tree at least, and quicklings don't see invis.
    -----------

    ------------
    0.12.2 Immunity

    I remember someone once posting on RGRA that eating a gorgon corpse
    while wearing an amulet of petrification resistance grants petrification
    immunity. Never tried it myself though.
    --------------

    ---------------
    0.12.5 Teleportitis and teleport control

    One of the biggest factors in the game is acquiring a source of teleport
    and control. For this reason, I would like it if there was a brief
    description of the easiest way for any PC to obtain it. I say ID
    stair hopping between levels 3 and 4 is best for getting a BD corpse,
    but if that's controversial, then skip it. I think the best source of
    on-demand teleportation is the guaranteed TP wand from the VDDL. All
    a PC needs to get it is a scroll of magic mapping, or a wand/scroll of
    item detection, or a crystal of knowledge. They can then use the TP
    traps on the level to reach the wand, and the TP trapped stairs as a
    return route. If that's too long though, condense it or skip it.

    ------------------
    0.12.3 Dooming and Cursing

    There is a game bug that causes fireproof blankets to be positively
    effected by the cursed and doomed intrinsics. It makes them last almost
    forever in the ToEF's.
    -----------------

    --------------
    0.13.6 Herbs

    A good place for mentioning the benefit of the gardening skill making
    any level herb-sustaining. Also, I couldn't find a place in the GB
    that actually spells out how to appropriately apply the herbalism
    skill. Specifically, I mean 'a'pply the skill while standing on an herb
    square, and if the message reads 'strong herbs' you can pick once, and
    if it reads 'full of blossoms' you can safely pick twice. I don't know
    if it should be mentioned here or in the 'skills' section, but it should
    be mentioned. This is one of the things we often chat to new players
    about on the forums.

    Also please mention the fact that herbs can not grow on a square that
    is occupied by a spider's web. This can be a nasty surprise for the
    unprepared.
    --------------
    Last edited by gut; 06-16-2009 at 02:05 PM.
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    5,067

    Default

    Double posting is fun!

    ------------
    0.13.7 Shops

    > Shops can be robbed.
    > they can summon hordes of thugs who attack

    > invisibility can be used to rob shops without making the shopkeeper
    > hostile

    > PC with the Teleportation spell can teleport a shopkeeper out of
    > his shop

    > it is impossible to choose the destination of the shopkeeper, this
    > is a dangerous technique

    Are all good, but maybe we can add a bit.

    Using teleport on the PC to rob a shop results in summoned thugs,
    non-hostile villagers, and AUTOMATIC cursing for all non-chaotic PC's.
    Chaotics never have to worry about cursing or dooming, even if the
    shopkeeper is killed in the most blatant manner possible.

    Using the stun ray spell, zaps from wands of paralyzation/stun ray,
    offensive bolt spells, and mindcraft against a shopkeeper in the PC's
    LOS causes thugs to be summoned, and AUTOMATIC cursing for all non-
    chaotic PC's, but no angry villagers.

    Using all of those methods while the shopkeeper is out of the PC's LOS
    or while the PC stands in a patch of darkness causes NO thugs, angry
    villagers, or cursing even with a non-chaotic PC, and even when the
    shopkeeper is killed while not in a state of panic. In these cases, the
    villagers actually fight the shopkeeper, which is hilarious.

    IMPORTANT: If you kill ANYONE in a village while they are in a state
    of panic for ANY reason, the whole town goes hostile!

    Ventriloquism generates no thugs, hostile villagers or cursing, even
    with a non-chaotic PC, and even when the shopkeeper is killed while
    not in a state of panic.

    Engaging a shopkeeper in melee with a non-chaotic PC, even while
    standing in a patch of darkness will result in thugs being summoned,
    AUTOMATIC cursing AND dooming for all non-chaotic PC's, and hostile
    villagers.

    Using the pick pockets skill on a shopkeeper, even in the dark will
    result in thugs being summoned, AUTOMATIC cursing for non-chaotic
    PC's, and non-hostile villagers.

    Digging shop walls and kicking the loot outside is the safest and
    most game-breaking way of robbing a store, as there are no side effects.

    It is important to note that shopkeepers can only attack with a coin
    throw once.
    --------------


    Here's the out-of-order stuff:
    --------------
    2.16.1 The Snake from Beyond

    > To attack the temple, the PC must dig in, have a means of crossing the water

    As strange as it sounds, the PC doesn't have to cross the water. It is
    possible to stand at a diagonal line to the temple entrance, and zap
    a wand of far slaying in there to awaken the Snake. Often lightning and
    magic missile bolts will work as well, but that depends on the PC. The
    Snake will emerge, but sometimes you have to wait a bit. To prevent
    the Snake from fleeing back into the main chamber, it is a good idea to
    lure him to the previous level.

    > The only monster found here who sees invisible is the Snake from Beyond.

    Of greater importance is the use of darkness. That is the safest way
    I know. No monster in the Water temple sees in dark.

    > Unfortunately, it is not vulnerable to any type of slaying ammo.

    It's a demon, so it's vulnerable to demon slaying.
    ----------------


    -----------
    Darkness:

    Since many parts of the GB deal with battle strategies, I would like
    to see some more mention of darkness. Darkness is one of the most
    useful options available to all literate PC's, yet it's one of the
    most under-used. I can't count the number of players that say that
    they never even bothered with trying it. Here are a few aspects
    of darkness that are often mentioned on the forum (mainly by me ):

    Monsters that can't see in dark will allow the PC to pound them to
    death without retaliation. The only exception is for monsters that
    are capable of panic. These monsters will be able to hit the PC
    when in a state of panic, but ONLY if they do not have an escape
    route. For this reason, it's best to avoid using darkness in a narrow
    corridor, because stray monsters can easily cut off the escape path
    of a powerful monster that is capable of killing the PC with one hit.

    *NO* giant can see in darkness, most humanoids also can't, with the
    notable exceptions of trolls, orcs, minotaurs, and dark elves.
    This is especially important to remember against tough monsters such
    as ogre magi (yes even the arena champion kind). Vortices, mimics,
    and several other early-game PC killers are all helpless in darkness,
    and vortices aren't even capable of panic :P

    There is a bug in the game that keeps darkness from working properly
    on door squares. It is important to mention that the PC is perfectly
    safe to use darkness if the *PC* is on the door square, but not if
    the MONSTER is on the door square.
    --------------


    And that's where I leave off for today. Expect more long-windedness in
    the near future...
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    721

    Default

    Here's what I'd like to see most:
    - release it under a free license
    - the Talents table from the IGB
    - the improved navigation (e.g. at the top of each page, and for each subsection)
    - maybe convert it into a wiki
    Of course it's unfair - that's the whole point.

    The Adom wiki: everything you don't want to know about Adom.
    http://ancardia.wikia.com/

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    597

    Default

    > Strained and especially Strained! for too long probably abuses the Dexterity stat.

    Not even a little.
    I've never had Strained abuse my Dexterity, but I'm pretty sure, in a recent play (winbeta, latest version) that being Strained! for a very long time cost me dex.
    I don't think I was overburdened for any significant amount of time, and certainly not at the point I lost the dex.

    It could be something else, like the even short duration Overburdened status, but Strained! seems dangerous to Dex to me based on my own experience.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lithuania
    Posts
    4,144

    Default

    no we have gut's halucinations on top of regular guidebook mistakes...

    how about just fixing basic guidebook nonsense - like fighters having swimming as class skill?

    Gut - where on Earth you took out petrification immunity as concept?
    Last edited by Soirana; 06-16-2009 at 03:43 PM.
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    I remember someone once posting on RGRA that eating a gorgon corpse
    while wearing an amulet of petrification resistance grants petrification
    immunity. Never tried it myself though.
    Urban legend. I did it, got "Crunch! Crunch! Crunch!" and according to a later potion of insight, no resistance was given.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    0.2.2 Changing alignment

    Please mention that sacrificing 'evil' artifacts will give a lawful
    boost to one's alignment. By 'evil' I mean the Crown of Science,
    the Ancient Scythe, etc... This is very important to PC's that
    are trying to get (pre)crowned as a non-lawful. It's a very nasty
    surprise to inadvertantly switch one's alignment to L in the middle
    of a marathon saccing session.

    Also please mention the fact that, when saccing to change one's
    alignment, a lonely 1 gold piece per sac is just as effective as 100.

    One final thing, maybe mention the tactic of intentionally irritating
    a diety with repeated prayers for the purpose of getting some item
    dusted. I've used that trick a number of times, and wish I would have
    read about it earlier than I did.
    Maybe you could also add how much different activities affect on alignment.
    I have got these figures from some of my experiments (I may remember a bit wrong so please don't put these in without verifying it first):
    - Healing a monster (any monster or pet seems to be ok if you haven't damaged it): +6 stones.
    - Whipping self: +0.2 stones per every hit point taken.

    These are base values for level 50 PC. For lower level PCs multiply the values by (51-level). For example level 40 PC gains 10 times as big boost than level 50 PC and for level 1 it's 50 times as big boost.
    In case of whipping (or maybe with others if they can have fractions too) the effect is rounded down to nearest integer. This means that level 50 PC needs to do at least 5 damage on a single whipping to gain any effect.
    Month and amulet of balance (and other if there are any) effects should be also taken in account.


    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    0.5 Spells - description and usefulness

    Please mention that some spells stack. This makes it much more pleasant
    to work with them in the game, and a lot of players just don't bother
    with them because they don't like to continually recast them all the
    time. Included in stacking spells are: bless, strength of Atlas,
    invisibility, and farsight.

    Strength Of Atlas / Lordly Might (W + E) * 20

    I remember Soirana once mentioning that it's magnitude was Ma * 1000,
    but that may have been code dived info.
    Not too hard to figure this without code-diving.

    Also it might be worth of it to note that at least strength of atlas lasts a lot shorter time when walking in wilderness (except the last 5 turns when you get warnings).

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    0.7 Weapon skills

    It is a recent discovery that critical hits yield double skill marks.
    I don't know if that's worth including though.
    Double? I think it's always +1 mark only. (which is double for only against monsters that give 1 base mark only).

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,731

    Default

    A few more...

    I'm fairly certain that all classes get haggling, first aid, and listening, not just those listed in section 0.1.1. This information appears to be correct in 0.4.1 though. I think it should be mentioned that haggling should only be used at high skill values, or it is likely the PC will experience a nasty price increase.

    In S 0.4.3 Herbalism can also be trained by picking herbs as well as identifying them.

    In 0.1.3, orcs face similar problems as dark elfs with regard to prices in dwarftown. The dangerously short lifespans of orcs and trolls may also be worth emphasizing. Gnomes also level faster than other races, and both gnomes and hurthlings receive an extra talent as noted in the manual. I'm not sure if it is mentioned elsewhere, but all non-summoned animals are neutral to druids, including cats. [edit]But not including bugs in the bug-infested temple.

    It may be worth including a section discussing the effects and costs of prayers.

    In 1.2.1.6, it is worth noting that the druid will give the PC a potion of cure corruption for the corpses of powerful chaotic monsters besides Keethrax, even if the PC did not take his quest. Notably, all orb guardians, Keriax, minotaur emperor, and (greater) black unicorn corpses will receive potions. I'm not sure about a few others, such as greater moloch corpses.

    The PC is only required to visit the pyramid and the maze for the first time during the specified level periods. Once the PC has visited those areas once, they may return at any level. This means that PCs should always have the opportunity to visit the pyramid, since they may simply enter at level 13, leave right away, and come back when they feel strong enough--even if that happens to be level 25.

    In S 2.19.1, the ACW does not appear to have a particular weakness to cold attacks. The speed listed seems very low to me--I usually see him with a speed of around 130.

    In 2.22.2.1, if the PC chats to the Ghost Librarian having not had enough turns pass, the Ghost Librarian will say "Respect the Silence!" or something of that nature: this will cause the ~2000 turn counter in the library to be reset: if the PC spends 2000 more turns there, the weird tome can still be claimed.

    On D50, I believe it is only necessary to kill the Balors on the level to ensure the gate remains closed.

    4.1 Andor Drakon is not vulnerable to humanoid slaying weapons or ammo. He is vulnerable to daemon slaying equipment, including the ToRR.

    In Appendix A, Amulet of cold heart provides =Cold, not -Cold

    In Appendix D, in additional to invoking a random spell, the wand of wonder also provides a small number of castings of that spell.

    [edit]: On a more extensive note, I would love to see the monster table include information such as which monsters see invisible, see in darkness, elemental resistances, and what types of slaying ammo they are vulnerable to.
    Last edited by JellySlayer; 06-17-2009 at 04:20 AM.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    On a more extensive note, I would love to see the monster table include information such as which monsters see invisible, see in darkness, elemental resistances, and what types of slaying ammo they are vulnerable to.
    And if they can smash doors.
    Of course it's unfair - that's the whole point.

    The Adom wiki: everything you don't want to know about Adom.
    http://ancardia.wikia.com/

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    [edit]: On a more extensive note, I would love to see the monster table include information such as which monsters see invisible, see in darkness, elemental resistances, and what types of slaying ammo they are vulnerable to.
    Speaking of this, the guidebook incorrectly claims the Ancient Karmic Wyrm sees invisible.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •