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Thread: Guidebook work

  1. #511
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    > for not getting Stealth. Getting greeted with such a barrage
    > strongly suggests you didn't have that skill.

    Gray elven wizzie. Had it maxxed. I've come to
    value stealth more highly than healing for certain
    PC's.

    > wand of monster detection

    Had none.

    And I'm not complaining about getting =fire with
    the crowning at all : )
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > for not getting Stealth. Getting greeted with such a barrage
    > strongly suggests you didn't have that skill.

    Gray elven wizzie. Had it maxxed. I've come to
    value stealth more highly than healing for certain
    PC's.

    > wand of monster detection

    Had none.

    And I'm not complaining about getting =fire with
    the crowning at all : )
    Good enough stealth allows you to get passed the CoC graveyard without detection. Also, does anyone know the effects of the stealthy talent?


    Also, if you step on a pool in a dark you get a message, "Your feet suddenly feel wet."
    Last edited by DumbleDoor; 11-04-2009 at 09:53 PM. Reason: Add more stuff 1
    The RNG is the source of chaos and corruption.
    "You talk to molest, the female dwarven child. Molest, the female dwarven child, grunts: "Me wanna sugar, please?"

  3. #513

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    I've done some highly unrigorous testing with my hopefully-about-to-ultra monk and discovered that rate of success shattering walls with kicks is highly dependent on strength. With it at 18ish I often needed up to ten tries; now that it's at 59 I'm successful perhaps 80% of the time.

  4. #514
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    Finally fully caught up on this thread!! Woo. goldy's monster reply post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Khwarizmi View Post
    This has made me discover something that I think I haven't seen anywhere. Another totally safe place to store some items seems to be... shops!

    Put your items right outside the shop, and kick them inside.
    I wonder if this preserves blink dog corpses, etc.? I bet it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by pblack View Post
    But I also store items near stairs everywhere.
    As everyone probably knows, if you leave items on a stairs then immediately go up/down it'll remain there until you return to that level. Usually, this works great. Obviously, be careful if there is more than one entrance to that level (i.e. don't leave stuff on the DH entrance and return by the forest entrance. That's just dumb.). For example if I get cool anti-chaos stuff and I'm in Dwarftown and I haven't done the Ogres yet (a nice item storage spot - zero monster gen as most people know), I will generally leave scrolls, potions, AoLSs on the stairs when I leave the level if I don't need them - so they are there when I return. Nothing moves on the level when you are not there, and when you return to the level you are instantly on the stairs, so no-one can grab it. As I say, most people will know this, but you never know

    While I'm on a tangent I may as well mention a random tactic that I sometimes use on HMV when I want to avoid Giant encounters - go in through the top river bit with swimming, ice bridge or simply a little drowning. Useful at times.

    Quote Originally Posted by DumbleDoor View Post
    Not really on topic but about your signature...
    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    You can fairly blame any death in ADOM that happens within the first 4000 turns on the RNG. After that, the RNG is no longer a factor.
    What if you were attacked by 2 quickling queens, a greater moloch, and an ancient karmic wyrm all at the same time?
    What, you didn't spend the first 4000 turns scumming for 99 Wi and spellbooks of Acid Ball? ...Joking!

    <for legibility, I have renested my bits in the quotes below. Hope you don't mind, Pump>
    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpernickel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by goldaryn View Post
    I did this one a current save on Jaakos - went to VDDL, explored the whole level, then used a blessed crystal of knowledge. Annoyingly I got the 2 Le, but no down location -.-
    Crystals only map a small area centred on the PC. If the staircase isn't within the radius, it won't get mapped.
    Another new thing learned... Rats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpernickel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by goldaryn View Post
    When invisible, chaos servants are definitely aware of your presence, I am not sure if they attack though.
    They do. They see invisible, just like Greater Chaos Servants, Chaos Mutants and Chaos Wizards.
    YAGBU then, please, Andy - if chaos servants see invis., then this bit in 2.16 is incorrect: "The only monster found here who sees invisible is the Snake from Beyond".

    Also.... 0.9.4 - re: dragon gold doubling "probably a bug". Surely it must be a bug? I remember the missile doubling bug in one version that made about as much sense, and TB fixed that one. Implies to me it's a bug. Who else is old-school enough to remember that one? (Was it a gamma?)

    Also - re: linkifying the sub-subsections - I don't know if you accept 3rd party help with your GB, but I dont mind helping getting the sub-links i.e. 0.1.1, 0.1.2 html- linked if you want the assistance, assuming you want it to do this, of course! It would be great. Really :-)

    I also want take a moment to say that the Guidebook is far and away THE resource for any of us playing ADOM and to personally thank Mr Williams for all his work over the years. Nice one mate.

    Lastly, random general question of interest to me as a player: The GB section on training stats with wotsit in Dwarftown... I have read this and I understand that if any of my trainable stats is less that 20, I give the fellow 4000GP and then it'll go to 20 in time. Is that right? If so, that's good to know..
    Last edited by goldaryn; 11-05-2009 at 01:53 AM.

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldaryn
    The GB section on training stats with wotsit in Dwarftown... I have read this and I understand that if any of my trainable stats is less that 20, I give the fellow 4000GP and then it'll go to 20 in time. Is that right? If so, that's good to know..
    No. A big chunk of applied training goes away whenever a stat is increased, so you'll generally need to reapply training after ever stat gain - this applies to herbs to. If you get enough training some will overlap to later stat gains, but you'll 'waste' a lot of training from this.

    As for the amount, ~4000gp is a reasonable aim for under 20 of a stat (but not a guarantee at 16+) - but you might want to mix up your total and not spend in exact thousands; you'll get better results... At lower stats you can do fine with less than 4000. Over 20 it ramps up very quickly, costs tens of thousands to have a reasonable shot.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinge View Post
    No. A big chunk of applied training goes away whenever a stat is increased, so you'll generally need to reapply training after ever stat gain - this applies to herbs to. If you get enough training some will overlap to later stat gains, but you'll 'waste' a lot of training from this.

    As for the amount, ~4000gp is a reasonable aim for under 20 of a stat (but not a guarantee at 16+) - but you might want to mix up your total and not spend in exact thousands; you'll get better results... At lower stats you can do fine with less than 4000. Over 20 it ramps up very quickly, costs tens of thousands to have a reasonable shot.
    Oh! You have to train it as well?

    When you say "applied training", you mean things like training Strength by being burdened, right? But! Those things increase your stats anyway... so... does Garth just speed up the process? But you _must_ still train?

    I may as well check that I understand all the methods of "applied training"

    St - encumbrance
    Le - reading
    Dx - boomerang/moss
    To - morgia
    Wi - morgia
    Pe - being blind

    No Garth: train, wait, gain, train, wait, gain, etc.
    Garth: $money, train, smaller wait, gain, train, smaller wait, gain, etc.

    That right? Also, have I missed any training methods? Does "eating relevant corpse/drink" count as a "train"? e.g. am I MORE likely to get a stat increase from a corpse thanks to Garth? So many questions. I really don't get Garth!

    EDIT: just seen that Athletics "trains" physical stats, apparently. But you can't use it apart from pumping it and then walking around, can you?
    Last edited by goldaryn; 11-05-2009 at 03:23 AM.

  7. #517
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    Thought I would say this in here in case it's not in the GB anywhere but when wielding two shields, left or right hand makes no difference. The higher DV shield determines your highest skill level trainable and also your skill bonus. The lower DV shield simply adds it's DV bonus to the final DV value.
    I said it before, and I'll say it again. If I knew scripture like you, I'd prolly be an athiest too.. -gut

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     じしf_, )ノ

  8. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldaryn View Post
    Oh! You have to train it as well?
    Uh, no, not quite. Without going into seriously code-dived stuff, here's basically how it works:

    "Training" a stat is not a discrete event. That is, when you eat 4 morgia, it does not guarantee you one point of To. Sometimes you get nothing. Sometimes, if you wait long enough, you might get a second, or, on very rare occasions, a third point (not all at once... you can gain at most one point per round of stat increases). The diminishing returns on this is pretty brutal. 50 morgia will probably give you two increases, maybe three, and on rare occasions, four. This is noteworthy because if you're at the breakpoint (say, 24 To), then if you use a whole bunch all at once, you might get to 26 or 27, especially if your potential is >25. I think there is an upper limit on how many increases you can feasibly get from non-Garth related training. So the difference between eating 50 morgia and eating 200 morgia is probably zero. Garth seems to work differently: it known that if you give him huge amounts of gold (say, 200 million), that you can train your stat a ridiculous number of increases--say 60 points plus potentials, spread out, of course, over an entire game. It's always better to give more to Garth, if you can, although, it doesn't seem to scale linearly very well. Giving him 8000 probably won't give 2 increases even if 4000 gives one.

    I believe that getting increases from corpses/potions, etc. decreases the likelihood of getting a training induced increase by a substantial margin.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  9. #519
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    Okay, so there's a few different ways you can gain stats:

    1) Some things directly increase your stats right when the event occurs - say, a Potion of Mana or few other things like Kobold Shaman Corpses or certain Room effects.

    2) Some things have a chance to increase right when the event occurs - most corpses fit into this area. They generally have better odds the lower your stats are; some will not give increases past certain points, others just have very low chances to. The majority of these odds get very low past about 30 of a stat, though it varies somewhat.

    3) Training. All forms of training essentially work the same. When a stat is trained by something, you're basically adding up a series of efforts in that stat, that will be periodically checked to see if you then get an increase from it. So the training from one turn being burdened is very small (and will not get an increase in most cases), but as you do it over several turns it adds up. When the check occurs, the game randomly rolls to see if you get a stat increase - it's easier the lower a stat is, and also much easier if you're not at max potential.

    It's possible to have enough training to guarantee an increase. However, after this check happens, you will lose a chunk of the training put in (importantly, you will often lose more than was actually required to get the increase if you had extra), often reseting it to 0 -- even if you didn't gain the stat. There is no real cap to the training you can get in general, but some things like herbs have a cap where they won't add any more if you already have a lot of training. Only one increase will happen at a time, and checks occur every several hundred turns semi-randomly (A certain stat will, as you might expect, make it happen faster.)


    Hopefully that clears it up? We mentioned spending more isn't always better, but I'll note the upside to paying Garth a ton at once is that the rate (price for amount of training gained) will mostly be based on what the stat started at rather than your current stat as it is later trained up. I guess practically this would generally mean pay him a little or pay him a lot - don't pay him a middling amount. (Though of course, definitions for those vary based on what your stat is at :P)

  10. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldaryn View Post
    YAGBU then, please, Andy - if chaos servants see invis., then this bit in 2.16 is incorrect: "The only monster found here who sees invisible is the Snake from Beyond".

    ...

    Also - re: linkifying the sub-subsections
    Right you are about the see invis. I'll fix that. Regarding the linking, I think you're asking for every line in the ToC to link to its subsection? Or initially at least the major ones? That's simple enough but time consuming. Thanks for the offer of help but I think it's simpler if I do it. I have enough of a hard time keeping track of what's been done even when I'm the only one doing it.

    Unfortunately I may not be able to make any changes for a day or two. The servers are being changed. The domain name will remain the same. There should be no interruption for viewers, but I can't make changes while the migration is in progress.
    ADOM Guidebook: http://adomgb.info/

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