The Heads Up Display

[Stingray1]

I think having to-hit and damage permanently on the main screen would be brilliant.

[Greyling]

I think having to-hit and damage permanently on the main screen would be brilliant.

Thank you Stingray. What you and gut said means a lot to me, no kidding. Not all my ideas are bad.

[mimhoff]

I agree with this. As a long time but still not that great player, I find it hard to process the huge range of inputs that goes in to whether I hit something or not.

There's much more than just the stats after all. Weapon marks! Find Weakness! Two Weapon Combat! Dodge! Tactics! Tactics (the skill)! Tactics (i.e. not getting surrounded)! Courage! Talents! I know what some of these do but not all of them, and I that makes it hard to decide which ones are holding me back. Perhaps putting the results on the HUD will help to show what kind of immediate impact the improvements will have.

Actually I don't even know what DV and to-hit are really themselves. Other than higher is better of course. How does my to-hit interact with monster DV? Where does the monster's to-hit come from?

[Greyling]

Actually I don't even know what DV and to-hit are really themselves. Other than higher is better of course. How does my to-hit interact with monster DV? Where does the monster's to-hit come from?

Definitely get confirmation on this from more experienced players, but I think this is how it works:

Monsters, like the PC, have a certain number of dice that determine their "to-hit" value. These to-hit dice, possibly with modifiers (like +5, or whatever) are "rolled" each time they attack. I think a monster has to "roll" an amount equal to or greater than your DV in order to deal damage to you. Conversely, the PC has to get a higher "roll" than the monster's DV in order to harm it.

So, to-hit is important. It's very important, in fact, because it determines whether you can actually do any damage to your opponent at all!

I'm not sure what has to happen in order for a critical hit to take place.

[_Ln_]

Your argument doesn't make sense. If you don't care about to-hit, you don't care about dexterity. It's the only visible stat I can think of that dexterity determines which isn't already displayed on the HUD. No one knows what dexterity does just by looking at the number that is displayed. Dexterity is only meaningful because of the calculations that use it. If you care about strength for any reason other than carrying capacity, you care about melee damage. It is logically inconsistent to say that you do not want to see carrying capacity or melee damage in the HUD but you do want to see strength. Strength is what determines these things (I think dexterity may also have a role in melee damage, but you see what I mean) I already said perception distance was a dumb example. The point is not even that my examples are the best additions to the HUD, they may all be terrible. The point is that there are more relevant statistics that could be displayed there. I never assumed players didn't want to see attributes. They do, but it leads to confusion about what those attributes do. Pretty much nobody knows how much impact an increase or decrease a point of strength or agility has on melee damage or to-hit. You may know what attributes affect what outputs, but I would imagine that the majority of people playing the game do not know the magnitude of these effects. That is why we periodically have RFE's suggesting stat drains be tuned down.

Alright, I shouldn't have critisized your examples. Let me try to expand my idea about attributes and their importance.
First of all, there are a lot of things various attributes influence directly which I know about and care about in _some_ games.
The most prominent of them is training them by not-100% methods like eating corpses and using herbs etc. I admit in prereleases I've started using character sheet more often to check stat potential so this may be not the most prominent but it is still useful.
There are other minor things like talents with prerequisites (mainly Toughness-related) and Learning thresholds for talents.

Secondly, I do want to observe the primary source of my PC's capabilities - if I carry too much stuff, I know I want to increase my Strength. If I'm getting confused all the time, I check Willpower.

Finally, there is some satisfaction to look at the PC and see high attributes. You instantly get the feeling that your character is really that tough, intelligent, whatever and this is all what ADOM is about for me - get badass then kick ass.

Granted, I've never said your idea is bad. It's just if theoretically TB will implement a fully configurable HUD (which is IMHO your suggestion should be, not just examples like exchanging stats for something else), I would still leave all stats there.

Again, I really like to see some other things on the screen, like current time. There are other things that we can change in the current HUD to introduce other stuff. For instance, changing direct value of experience to percentage of the next level will easily leave your enough space for a second dynamic display. Also, I don't care about my PC's name in the HUD (I don't actually care about it at all - have a couple wins where I forgot to rename chars who I normally start named the letter of last chosen talent).

There is another issue for introducing values in the HUD. What about times when you don't have to-hit and damage (two shields equipped)?

[Greyling]

Granted, I've never said your idea is bad. It's just if theoretically TB will implement a fully configurable HUD (which is IMHO your suggestion should be, not just examples like exchanging stats for something else), I would still leave all stats there.)

It's observant that you said that, because I didn't suggest a fully customizable HUD only because I thought it would be seen as too difficult to implement or unnecessary. I would like to see that. I just didn't think anyone else would.

Again, I really like to see some other things on the screen, like current time. There are other things that we can change in the current HUD to introduce other stuff. For instance, changing direct value of experience to percentage of the next level will easily leave your enough space for a second dynamic display. Also, I don't care about my PC's name in the HUD (I don't actually care about it at all - have a couple wins where I forgot to rename chars who I normally start named the letter of last chosen talent).

Those are all good points. And I like the idea about displaying exp to next level as a percentage to at least add one more DD.

There is another issue for introducing values in the HUD. What about times when you don't have to-hit and damage (two shields equipped)?

They would be whatever is currently displayed on the character sheet. I would assume that that means they would just be zero, but I haven't checked (and I don't want to start another character just to go search for a second shield). I mean, those values are always influenced by what you have equipped, right? Now I'm not sure I understand the question.

[_Ln_]

They would be whatever is currently displayed on the character sheet. I would assume that that means they would just be zero, but I haven't checked (and I don't want to start another character just to go search for a second shield). I mean, those values are always influenced by what you have equipped, right? Now I'm not sure I understand the question.

Fortunately, we have a guaranteed shield in the SMC.
Character sheet with broadsword in right hand and a shield in left:

 --------- Attribute Scores ---------     ---- Miscellaneous Data ----
  Attribute   Cur  Max  Tmp  Spc  Tot      Speed: 100 (average)
  Strength     19   25             19      Money: 88 gold pieces
  Learning      8   14              8      Debts: none
  Willpower    12   20             12      Deity: Istaria
  Dexterity    12   16             12      Time : 0y, 0d, 22h, 46m, 40s
  Toughness    15   22             15      Birth: 280/Candle
  Charisma     10   13             10      Month: 4/Unicorn
  Appearance    9   10              9      Day  : 1/91: Darknight
  Mana          8   14              8      Moon : New Moon
  Perception   10   12             10      Age  : 21 years

 ------------------------------- Encumbrance -------------------------------- 
  868s (burdened: 1576s+, strained: 2101s+, very strained: 3151-3675s) 

 ------------------------------- Melee Damage ------------------------------- 
  Right hand: +8 bonus to hit, 1d7+4 damage 

 ------------------------------- Kick Damage -------------------------------- 
  +3 bonus to hit, 1d4+3 damage 




                                                     [Press SPACE to continue]

Character sheet with 2 shields equipped:

 --------- Attribute Scores ---------     ---- Miscellaneous Data ----
  Attribute   Cur  Max  Tmp  Spc  Tot      Speed: 100 (average)
  Strength     19   25             19      Money: 88 gold pieces
  Learning      8   14              8      Debts: none
  Willpower    12   20             12      Deity: Istaria
  Dexterity    12   16             12      Time : 0y, 0d, 22h, 47m, 13s
  Toughness    15   22             15      Birth: 280/Candle
  Charisma     10   13             10      Month: 4/Unicorn
  Appearance    9   10              9      Day  : 1/91: Darknight
  Mana          8   14              8      Moon : New Moon
  Perception   10   12             10      Age  : 21 years

 ------------------------------- Encumbrance -------------------------------- 
  868s (burdened: 1576s+, strained: 2101s+, very strained: 3151-3675s) 

 ------------------------------- Kick Damage -------------------------------- 
  +3 bonus to hit, 1d4+3 damage 







                                                     [Press SPACE to continue]

Shift-W says "You should wield a weapon" if you have two shields equipped.

Of course the HUD can display 0's but that will look slightly out of place for me. Can't say till I try, but it's just a feeling.

P.S. Bonus point for guessing r/c combo of the character I rolled.

[grobblewobble]

Human fighter?

[goldaryn]

I think this is an excellent idea from greyling and it deserves some thought.

Firstly, in the new graphical mode there is one line devoted to key reminders. Longtime players don't need these reminders - could we have the choice to have have this line changed to useful info? It could even be more than one choice - dynamic display 2013, as it were.

Secondly, "in classic mode". The original suggestion to view other stats rather than char attributes in classic mode is a decent one. Again, it could be a changeable choice, with the default being what it is now, and an option for advanced players to fiddle with it.