Recommend me a weak Race/Class Combo

[Toffeeviola]

Hello all,

Been playing a lot of ADOM recently. I've gotten better at it lately, but I still suck in relative terms. Mostly because at about Level 16-18 I start taking stupid/reckless/needless risks. I've still never beaten the whole game.

I've enjoyed with some of the more synergistic combinations over the years: Grey Elven Wizard, Troll Healer, Wizard, High Elven Archer, Dwarf Weaponsmith, Dwarf Merchant...

...but now I'm looking for something as weak as possible; some Sign/Race/Class combo that's weak enough that I don't take success with it for granted. A tough enough challenge that I can rise to it and finally beat the game.

I was wondering if you guys could help me with that

[Toffeeviola]

Here's the conclusion I've come to. I'd love to hear your thoughts/experiences:

I've had a solid look at classes and believe that Merchant, Mindcrafter and Thief are probably the three weakest classes overall. However I've had a lot of success with Merchants and their crowning gifts are pretty solid (and very achievable - I've had them triple crowned before) so they're out.

Thief is also out, despite the class' pathetic crowning gifts. Their overall trap avoidance capabilities makes sudden death much less likely, while Alertness, Stealth, Backstabbing mean that they're likely to fare better against bosses than some other classes so long as they're played well tactically.

So. Mindcrafters:

Mindcrafters have even better crowning gifts, but their Skillset is poor and but their lack of arcane spellcasting sucks. Additionally their powers are heavily dependent on Willpower and Character Level.

Of those, Level is probably the most important, which means that ideally to make the going tough enough the race needs to be one with slow progression.

Trolls are out because their high Strength, Toughness and health regeneration offers huge survivability irrespective of class.

Orcs seem to fit the ticket. In their favor they have Find Weakness and decent Strength and Toughness. Going against them is their Chaotic bent and bad reputation; which makes crowning and some other quest stuff significantly harder. They can get aged to death super-easily, have very subpar Mana, Perception etc and only average Willpower.

Obviously I will be setting my computer's clock to Friday the 13th for the cursed start.

Of the signs available, it has got to be the Dragon sign. The extra Strength and Toughness is nice, but that -3 Willpower will hurt something fierce.

[JellySlayer]

The hardest combo is probably Unicorn/Grey Elf/Thief. Or maybe Unicorn/Ratling/Thief. If you want to give yourself a bit more of a fighting chance, Hurthling thief is hard but not quite so anemic early on.

Gnome fighter is probably a decent challenge combo.

Pretty much any human is fairly tough. Try a human mindcrafter maybe.

[Toffeeviola]

In the past I've personally found Humans easier than Orcs, just because of the comparatively quick level progression and lack of areas of true weakness.

I don't personally see any particular reason why an Orc Mindcrafter would be stronger than a Thief, other than the caution being a mindcrafter inspires in the first place. As far as I can see, the Thief Skillset is much better.

I'll see if I can get success with this and then try Unicorn/Ratling/Thief (which was my original backup option ).

[JellySlayer]

Skillset is a very minor effect. Orc mindcrafter can start with 20 St and 20 To. You don't need skills with stats like that. Mindcrafter mostly relies on physical fighting in early game anyway, so combat stats are pretty important. Low Wi/Ma scores will be a nuisance later, but it's not a huge deal. Elf mindcrafter is probably harder than orc, IMHO.

[LFk]

I wish you luck. I'd say the pursuit of the first win might be easier with a powerful R/C. I suppose citing hubris as a cause of death is reasonable, but this is certainly a very uh, interesting way of going about getting a win.

The Dark Elven Merchant is, in my opinion, the weakest individual PC in the game, though any of the elves will probably be equally bad.

Orcish Mindcrafters probably survive better than many other mindcrafters would at the start due to good Str/To rolls. If you're hell-bent on handicapping yourself as much as possible, you probably want to try something elven, as their low Str/To will be a huge burden when coupled with the 0-1 PV start you'll likely have. Elves are very difficult when starting in situations where they possess both poor starting equipment and no combat utilities. They have the worst brute force stats, and nothing racially to fall back on, like Trolls (extremely strong & tough), Drakelings (pretty tough, spit), Hurthlings (thrown rocks), etc. Your ideal "challenge" character probably should be some flavor of elf.

There's no way for a mindcrafter to take advantage of the excellent elvish Dx or Le at the start, and the high Ma score is not as helpful due to the lack of true offensive "spells" until Mind Blast. Even then, unless you manage to find some passable combat gear, you might struggle with even basic undead / mindless creatures until TK Blast at 15.

[grobblewobble]

Mindcrafters have an infinite supply of potions of confusion and guaranteed teleport control from the start that they can never lose. Thieves are weaker.

[Stingray1]

Any R/C you pick will be pretty strong by level 16-18, but needless to say I think the added early game challenge will probably set your mind straight.

I always find elven thieves to be very challenging. Although as you've said Detect Traps and lvl 6(if you can get them there) class power makes traps not so dangerous. Forget about that though, most of their deaths are caused by monsters as a result. They should teach you something about avoidance and respect for monsters.

As an aside is elven correct or should it be elvish? Edit - Sjoe, after some googling it seems I was correct in using elven.

[Blasphemous]

Afaik mindcrafters can lose teleport control via pool.
Human mindcrafters have a significantly higher survival rate than gray elven ones, from my experience.
I've been recently trying to get a mindcrafter past the early game and notice that the biggest problem is lack of pv.
Once that is mitigated, it's pretty much along the lines of other ranged fighters - stab monsters that have no special attacks with a spear+shield and everything else keep at a distance.
At around lvl 10-12 with half decent willpower, mindcrafters start to shine, save for some occasions where you face undead tension rooms. Ghuls are the most dangerous obviously.
I've discovered the usefulness of thrown rocks early on, against jellies immune to mindcraft and otherwise dangerous due to poison/weapon destruction.
Tough class for the early game but quite powerful later on.

[grobblewobble]

Afaik mindcrafters can lose teleport control via pool.

They've got it as a class power (or mindcraft actually). Pools can't take that away. Mindcrafters do not depend on the intrinsic.