Tackling the new quests & maps for ADOM

[Grond]

How much grinding people are willing to put up with, and what qualifies as grinding are going to vary from player to player. However, spending an hour in the same cavernous levels is definitely excessive in my book; if this were required to win I probably wouldn't play this game. For reference, my normal runs tend to clock in at 60-80k turns - nowhere near a speed run - and yes, I am rarely managing to hit level 50, even after D:50.

[gdo]

It also depends hugely on what vaults you get. Red and Karmic vaults give the most XP by far, especially if you get lucky on the number of greater wyrms generated. GUV- well, I don't think most people ever do these. Giants are somewhere in between. In general, though, I think XP definitely needs to be readjusted back upwards. Then again, though, I personally think level 50 should be achievable by every character (bar trolls) without grinding, as a part of natural gameplay, so I might be in opposition to the thoughts of most people.

[Blank4u47]

As I had mentioned in other posts, I often get to lvl 50, my turn count is anywhere from 80k-120k but I always clear vaults, I feel I've gotten rather skilled at destroying GUV's actually

[Phoobnahr]

How much grinding people are willing to put up with, and what qualifies as grinding are going to vary from player to player. However, spending an hour in the same cavernous levels is definitely excessive in my book; if this were required to win I probably wouldn't play this game. For reference, my normal runs tend to clock in at 60-80k turns - nowhere near a speed run - and yes, I am rarely managing to hit level 50, even after D:50.

just to clarify, i mean that it probably took me an hour total to do the entire Tomb of the High Kings dungeon. I spent a little extra time killing stuff in the cavernous levels because as I mentioned, leveling around that point is so slow. I feel you may be overstating the case somewhat to say that ADoM would be completely off the table if you had to spend an hour fighting in those cavernous levels... that seems like a bit of an overreaction to me, and italics notwithstanding, an hour is really not that long.

Also, to keep things on topic, the experience gained in my time in those three cavernous levels is a pittance compared to the experience gained at the end of the game. Had I not gone to the Tomb of the High Kings AT ALL, all that experience would have been made up many times over by slaying a single greater Moloch or Balor in the lower CoC

You said your normal runs clock in at 60-80 k turns. My Human priest clocked in at 150k turns and he may be the first of my seven or eight gate closers to close it before day 90 (he closed it on day 89).

As I said, I think the trend of people here saying there isnt enough experience to hit level 50 simply reflects the fact that ADoM veterans play through the game much much faster than can be expected of anyone else. I myself cannot fathom how to viably progress a character through the lower caverns of chaos at around level 30. Anytime I try to dive too deep too quickly I get squashed like a bug.

[Grond]

just to clarify, i mean that it probably took me an hour total to do the entire Tomb of the High Kings dungeon. I spent a little extra time killing stuff in the cavernous levels because as I mentioned, leveling around that point is so slow. I feel you may be overstating the case somewhat to say that ADoM would be completely off the table if you had to spend an hour fighting in those cavernous levels... that seems like a bit of an overreaction to me, and italics notwithstanding, an hour is really not that long.

An hour is quite a long time be playing a game and not having fun. Perhaps you find this kind of activity fun, but I don't.

Also, to keep things on topic, the experience gained in my time in those three cavernous levels is a pittance compared to the experience gained at the end of the game. Had I not gone to the Tomb of the High Kings AT ALL, all that experience would have been made up many times over by slaying a single greater Moloch or Balor in the lower CoC

True, although it is reflective of how much grinding you are willing to put up with (I don't know much about how you played the rest of the game).

You said your normal runs clock in at 60-80 k turns. My Human priest clocked in at 150k turns and he may be the first of my seven or eight gate closers to close it before day 90 (he closed it on day 89).

As I said, I think the trend of people here saying there isnt enough experience to hit level 50 simply reflects the fact that ADoM veterans play through the game much much faster than can be expected of anyone else. I myself cannot fathom how to viably progress a character through the lower caverns of chaos at around level 30. Anytime I try to dive too deep too quickly I get squashed like a bug.

I suspect the high turn counts for new players' wins has more to do with not knowing where to go, rather than massive amounts of grinding. And looking through the first win YAVP's, hitting level 50 is by no means universal (though it is more common than in my games).

[Phoobnahr]

An hour is quite a long time be playing a game and not having fun. Perhaps you find this kind of activity fun, but I don't

I find playing ADoM to be pretty fun. That's why I play it. I don't stop having fun just because I'm traversing cavernous levels above the Tomb of the High Kings. I tend to fully explore every dungeon level I come to with the exception of the Tower of Eternal Flames.

I again feel like you're missing my point somewhat. What I said was that I just completed a game with little to no grinding (spent a minimal amount of extra time in a couple cavernous levels, which made a negligible contribution to my total experience), and ended up at level 50 anyway.

[Grond]

I again feel like you're missing my point somewhat. What I said was that I just completed a game with little to no grinding (spent a minimal amount of extra time in a couple cavernous levels, which made a negligible contribution to my total experience), and ended up at level 50 anyway.

Well, definitions of grinding are going to vary (as I said in my first post) - your normal game is my incredibly grindy slog.

[Phoobnahr]

your normal game is my incredibly grindy slog.

are you suggesting that fully exploring every level you come to is "an incredibly grindy slog"?

[Grond]

are you suggesting that fully exploring every level you come to is "an incredibly grindy slog"?

There are a lot of dungeon levels in the deep CoC, and you are spending quite a bit of time for the reward you get - so yes, for me it would be a slog to fully explore every level (this qualifies me as an expert speedrunner, I suppose ) . I was also referring to your opinion that an hour of grinding is a "minimal amount".

[gdo]

Ultimately what it comes down to is that your playstyles (and mine) are different, and that's okay. The point isn't that you are wrong for enjoying what some people consider more grindy behavior, the point is- and correct me if I'm wrong- that those of us who don't enjoy doing it shouldn't be unable to reach high levels because we don't enjoy doing it.