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Thread: Swear This Game is Needlessly Stupid Sometimes

  1. #41
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    Well, there are many great games and in the end it's a good thing that different people have different tastes. Sorry for getting a little rude in between, Whiskiz. Guess it was just this "Whaaaaat, who dares to not love my favorite game!?!?!?!"-situation ;-)
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  2. #42
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    So you're a beginner that hasn't got past the very early game, and you die because you worry about not killing cats, which is an optional challenge that only has an effect in the very late game, and is designed for very experienced players because obviously worrying about that makes the game much more difficult. And this is supposed to be an unfair thing. Right.

    By the way, the puppy cave is not a good dungeon to maximize the chances of not dying in the early game. I'm aware someone mentioned this dungeon, but the easy way to do the early game is going to the VD/DD, ID and/or CoC (apart from the new starting dungeon). Starting the game in the puppy cave, which has cavernous levels, ants and vaults, is quite a challenge.

    Not that you couldn't have gotten some rocks and pummel the lizards with them from point black range, mind you.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskiz View Post
    And now, i was in the puppy cave, the cavernous level with high spawn rate, after already dropping 2 karmic lizards off a level above in 2 separate rooms, and a cat all the way at the top in a room once i finally gained enough hunger to get my full 109 speed back. After going back down from dropping said karmic lizard off then second lizard then cat all the way up on the first level, one after the other from the same cavernous level, and then going down below the cavernous level, clearing the rest of the cave and coming back up into the level, i get stuck in a long corridor between a 3rd karmic lizard (in the last 5min) and 2 cats the side i just came.

    Either way it was get cursed or piss that stupid cat lord off or whatever, took one look at the situation and decided im done. Halfheartedly tried to fight my way out by trying to take out the cats even though that wasn't the exit way, figured run the karmic round a level below then go back up but more enemies just filled the corridor either way anyway from the high spawn rate. Let me guess, like the soultion to most other problems i either should have completely left the dungeon or not gone down that far, in fact maybe you should skip more of the game than you end up playing, you know, just to be safe, now that's skill right there. Knowing when to run (any time stupid RnG becomes stupid or anything gets remotely hard) and is a very rewarding solution to you being challenged.
    You cleared the entire lesser vault and didn't find a single bow + arrow or rock to kill the karmic lizards with? And you didn't grab any rocks from the ant level for extra missiles? Never found a spear trap for a few thrown spears? Missiles are very, very important in ADOM. Regardless of what kind of character you are playing, you need to be at least minimally proficient in some missiles. There are many monsters that are too dangerous/annoying to fight in melee range. For the cats, you can just kill them. The cat lord is an optional endgame quest. No need to worry about it at this point.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  4. #44
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    Like the SMC, Puppy Cave is a challenge for experienced players. I don't know if you mentioned what your race class combo was, starsign, dv/pv, weapon ect, but it would seem you were not adequately prepared or strong enough to take on the optional area. Even the best and most experienced players die in there sometimes. I would recommend playing it safe until you become more experienced and knowledgeable.

    No one said this game would be fair or easy. That's why we love it, getting a break from games where you die, resurrect, and continue at the checkpoint with minimal or no consequences. Not here, we play for all the marbles every time. It's deadly dangerous, and the weight of consequences makes it more exciting.

    Take your lumps, learn, and do better next time. I think you'll appreciate your successes more with a tough, mean game that has no mercy.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskiz View Post
    I have a pet that ends up killing karnach the raider, for the quest and am then not acknowledged as the slayer to receive the reward, because coding that in would be too smart.
    Can you please describe the response of the sheriff when this happened? As coded the response should have been (when talking to him after your pet slew Kranach):

    I've been told that Kranach was slaughtered by someone else.
    (more)

    But unfortunately, it wasn't you...
    (more)

    Try to be faster in future quests.

    At least that's what the code says. And what happened in my game. So IMHO - before calling the game stupid or its coders stupid please let's see if you misread the text or if there is some other explanation for what you experienced.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskiz View Post
    The worst thing so far? since said run-in with a pet on karnach, seriously the next 4 games (***so far***) i have farmed the fuckin forest outside of town after picking the quest up from like level 2 until i am no longer elgibile for the quest (around level 6) using tons of food, making it dangerous and getting shit rusted from raining etc etc and have not, seen him, one time, in those hundreds, and hundreds, of turns..................... Plenty of bandit run-ins, plenty of bear fights even wizards jackals and dogs, what is even the point of having the fucking quest if the chance to do it is what 0.05%?

    What other quests are so stupid you won't get them 99% of the time? it'd be great to know before wasting a life/time/character on said quests later on down the track, that would seriously, be stupid...
    Actually internally - once the raider quest has been activated - there is a 25% chance to encounter Kranach whenever a wilderness encounter happens (and you are not yet too experienced). Thus missing him four games in a row after dozens of encounters (I assume - or did you advance past experience level 6 early on? Then he disappears) is about as likely as winning the lottery. Congratulations. That's then the very definition of randomness.

    I could consider to increase the likelihood of encountering Kranach over time but I strongly believe in more randomness, especially as the quest is in no way essential.
    Thomas Biskup
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCableGuy View Post
    I occurs to me that much of the hassle with Kranach can be corrected by simply making his corpse a 100% drop
    The corpse drop probability BTW is 100%.
    Thomas Biskup
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Ln_ View Post
    How exactly can you guarantee that? There is a scripted reply from Tywat Pare concerning another being killing Kranach. Outside of pets doing that there is only one way this (someone else doing the last kill) - if a true neutral monster entered the wilderness square, decided to attack Kranach and successfully killed him. Taking into account the fact that Kranach is relatively tough among early game monsters (remember, xp level 6), you have to put a ton of effort in order to pull this.

    All this lets me to believe that pet kills were deliberately added by TB as a quest ending action which denies the reward.
    Absolutely. It's totally intentionally and part of the little bit of characterization with various of the NPCs. I envision Tywatt Pare as a tough, no-nonsense kind of stern guy and thus he is pretty picky about rewarding people. Maybe over picky, but it's totally intentional. The world is not just and that's part of the lessen ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by _Ln_ View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I fully believe the design of this particular mechanic is pretty silly (especially animal pets are mostly mindless beasts that are ordered around; while necromantic slaves are simply the tools/weapons of their master). Level 6 and stealth 5k xp limit is borderline buggy behavior.
    Why do you consider this as borderline buggy? It's also pretty intentional. Maybe there could be some textual hint once you pass the limit but you learn about this after talking to the sheriff once later on. I don't beliebe too much in pushing everything into your face. And spending an eternity trying to find Kranach would be considered kind of dysfunctional in real life, too, wouldn't it? So why not do something else after a while? But maybe that's just me ;-)
    Thomas Biskup
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCableGuy View Post
    I actually happen to agree with the claim that this game is "Needlessly Stupid."
    But not so much that one about it being so poorly programmed.
    Yeah, Stupid things tend to happen.... Often.... And not always your fault.
    Like getting stuck in a Corridor in the Small Cave with (seemingly) endlessly
    spawning monsters coming from both ends and your lvl seemingly Skyrocketing with each kill....
    Can't see this as a prime problem. It happens occasionally, yes. And has been lessened over the past couple of versions.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCableGuy View Post
    Or getting ambushed at lvl 1 in the Wilderness taking 1 step out of Terinyo...
    Sounds like perfectly reasonable for me. I mean: If you are looking for pickings, why wouldn't you lurk near to a settlement and ambush especially weak/unexperienced appearing wanderers? And it also doesn't happen all the time. That's the nature of randomness.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCableGuy View Post
    Frankly, this game is a outlet for the Masochist in us all.
    It needs a slight tweaking in the programming and maybe a little fine tuning of a couple of quests.
    But otherwise a perfectly enjoyable waste of time.
    :-) You will be happy to hear that starting with ADOM R51 ADOM Deluxe now contains a set of customization options. You can lessen hunger and corruption, increase or decrease the deadliness of monsters, etc. and thus play a truly personalized game. It even has a story mode which allows you to save and restore your characters. All this in an attempt to make different types of players happy, too.

    They'll just be using a different highscore list than the core roguelike games and their scores will be penalized for reducing the difficulty level (and increased for upping it).

    Seems like a good solution to me. Try it! ADOM is evolving thanks due to player feedback and every comment helps in some way.
    Thomas Biskup
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin View Post
    Why do you consider this as borderline buggy? It's also pretty intentional. Maybe there could be some textual hint once you pass the limit but you learn about this after talking to the sheriff once later on. I don't beliebe too much in pushing everything into your face. And spending an eternity trying to find Kranach would be considered kind of dysfunctional in real life, too, wouldn't it? So why not do something else after a while? But maybe that's just me ;-)
    I meant this one of course -- http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=3373
    And you also seem to think it is buggy!
    I like my women like my ADOM loot - hunted as treasure and in extra quantity.

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